[Meizicht]

TL;DR - People shouldn't use feminism to get attention/money/personal gain. When someone is hurt, it doesn't mean it's sexist. When a woman doesn't get her way, it's not automatically sexism. Males get hurt too, but are stigmatized for it. Feminism =/= women should have life on a silver platter just because they are women. But at the same time I know the media and come businesses do discriminate; I'm not denying that. I'm saying that whereas women have hurdles, so do men and everyone else. Women are not the only ones who have to struggle. And being a feminist doesn't mean you have the right to bully all the guys around you.

Please red the whole rant, though. And it would also be a good idea to read all the replies as well, to see all sides.

First off, I would like to say before anyone begins to flame me that no, I am not an ass who hates women. In fact, there are a lot of things about me that would prove this, but I'd rather not reveal my entire personal life on the internet for everyone to see, so I'll just describe my "disclaimer" here before I rant. I do not deny that people get raped, threatened, murdered, hurt, bullied, etc etc. I do not turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to those who have been. I am not saying that one person doesn't deserve the rights of another. I am not saying that all feminists are bad. I do not support rape. I do not support anything that harms another. I am a NEUTRAL person. I do not see GENDER, COLOR/RACE, PREFERENCE, SEXUALITY, and I do not care if you prefer fantasizing about horses in hot tubs; it is not my business, I do not have a problem with it if it doesn't harm another or have anything to do with my life.

That being said...

People need to start looking at the fucking picture. The big picture. Not "women" and "men", but PEOPLE. It is not a game to see how many points on the unfair bar each gender can get. I've seen so many things that have nothing to do with sexism, suddenly become blown out of proportion, and all about "gender equality". Okay, so.. For most of what I've experienced, and what I have seen - because I will not comment on things I have not experienced and seen - most of these "feminists" don't seem to want to stop at "equality".

I wrote a rant before about this, when I saw an image on Tumblr about "equality" for women. Here it is:

I believe I saw the word “equality” in this as I read it, and I think we need to look at this word a little deeper. “Equality” does not mean that every human who happens to possess a uterus gets to be hoisted upon a throne while those unlucky enough to be male have to put up with abuse in the shadows. Do many hardcore feminists acknowledge the fact that there are female sex offenders, females who beat the fuck out of others, who kill others, who are just as bad as the male offenders? They never put the spotlight on them; they never mention it. Why? Because males aren’t as “precious” as women are in this society. When I see someone, anyone, feminist or not, who gripe about having to be a woman in today’s world because it’s just so dangerous ( by the way, it’s dangerous for EVERYONE ) and who act like a total damsel in distress with no way to defend herself, and then talk about “rape culture”, and how males are not in as much danger; tell that to the faces of the guys who have been hurt, abused, raped and to the families that had their sons, brothers and fathers killed. Statistics don’t matter when someone’s life is the subject. Gender boundaries shouldn’t even matter. Feminists shouldn’t be FEMinists, they should be HUMANists. Don’t just defend females, defend ALL PEOPLE. Don’t single out males when there are PLENTY of women sickos in the world as well. It is not a gender trait to rape and kill; it’s a gender-blind mental issue. It’s a stigma for males to be hurt in todays world, while it’s a pitiable situation for a woman in the same spot. You think that is equality? I’m sorry, but I think the word you’re looking for is “favoritism”.

Now, I’m not a stupid discriminating woman hater obviously. I am just so tired of seeing the “popular side” of the argument, which is just flat out cruel. You say “media teaches women to hate their bodies” but you don’t see that it’s the same for guys as well. If you’re not “ripped”, “in shape” or any kind of strong, then you’re not a man. If you don’t have sex with 29847210984 fucking people in you’re life, are still a virgin at 16, then you’re not a man. If you dress certain ways, like certain things, talk a certain way, then you’re not a man. And you get stigmatized for it. But nobody even glances at that.

People assume that because you’re a man, you don’t get hurt. And if you do, you’ll be just fine. Because men are taught that it’s WRONG to be hurt. And the general group of feminists seem to allow that while it HELPS to put women on top of the world while men are looked at as filthy pigs.

Humans are humans, not “men are men” and “women are women”.

It pisses me off every day when the news spends three hours talking about a woman being raped, when the Sanduscky case got about half an hour of media attention every other month. ( Adding to this since the verdict came out recently; I bet not many people even paid attention to the fact that for years, NOBODY BELIEVED THE VICTIMS. ) It just seems like “if it’s not a woman, it’s not popular” and the male victims get punished just for being victims.

I’m sure the argument “women can have children” will be thrown in my face; that shouldn’t even matter here. There are many ways to prevent that, and hospitals DO prevent it when a victim goes in to get checked. Aside from that, it’s not like males have any more resistance to any STDs than females do, they hurt the same, get effected by it the same, but the only difference is, society tells males that they have to hide it or else they’re not a man.

Do I also have to mention that when a woman hits a man, it’s not even an issue? But when a man defends himself against a woman, it’s called domestic violence? I’m not talking about the assholes who just wail on women who do nothing, but I’m talking about all the times, casually in public, at home, wherever, where I see some woman hitting and punching her guy friends, claiming “if you hit me back, I’ll call you a wife beater”. Or when behind closed doors the woman is beating the shit out of her husband or boyfriend, and he finally defends himself, and nobody looks at his argument because he is a man, and he is automatically the bad guy. ( Adding also, when it comes to words as well; I hear plenty of women spitting "all men are pigs" like it's just an everyday normal thing, while when a man calls a woman anything at all, he'll be leered upon for the rest of his life. )

And if anyone thinks that is fair, then you’re not looking for that word, “equality”. You’re just looking for excuses to serve life on a silver platter for women.

So before anyone claims that feminists have it hard because people hate their opinion, please look at yourself for a moment; are you really in it for the EQUALITY or are you in it so you can be worshipped for being a woman? Do you want to defend ALL VICTIMS, or do you just want to sit on a throne? A REAL feminist doesn’t stigmatize men and slap labels on their faces, because that would be hypocritical. So wake up; you’re just doing what you think MEN are doing to you.

Before anyone rips into me for defending the least popular side of the coin here, I’m NOT saying that women don’t get raped ( obviously people can get raped, regardless of who you are ) and I know that the media is teaching the wrong message. I’m NOT saying that all men are angels ( but nor are all women ) and I’m not saying that women aren’t discriminated against ( but so are men ). I’m saying that feminists need to also take off the blindfold and open their minds to the fact that this is not a gender issue. It’s a human issue. ALL PEOPLE deserve to be defended and to NOT have to be scared when they’re alone outside these days. ALL. PEOPLE. Not just women. Not just men. EVERYONE. Nobody should have to be afraid of others.

I’m not telling people not to care. I’m telling people to care about more than just women. Care about everyone.

If you’ve got a problem with what I’m saying here, then you need to take a step back and sort out what your individual intentions are with your opinions. Either way you look at it, if you don’t want to defend people regardless of their gender, race, appearance, whatever, then you’re not defending the cause; you’re trying to personally gain something from it.

Equality shouldn’t be a loosely used word. Favoritism gets mistaken for equality when the argument is a “hot trend”. Just saying.



I think it's probably about time people stop looking at "which parts do you have" and focus more on "you and me are the same".


Everyone is of course welcome to discuss. But respect everyone's opinions. Man, woman, neither, both or hell, even if you're a damn chicken, I don't care; whatever you think is how you think. It might be vastly different from my opinion, but that's fine. We may argue, but that doesn't make us enemies. Doesn't make me a "filthy pig". Doesn't make you one either. So be sure to keep this in mind while posting. Please and thank you.

[Fey]

I believe that everyone has the right to their opinion, and their beliefs. You have expressed yourself very well and in a way that shows how you've approached it; however, I think that part of your approach is a bit narrow. From a comment made I will assume you're younger than 21, so you have lived in the 'current' mindset for your whole adult life.

The major thing to remember is that many, not all, of the feminists you seem to have issues with are older than you by one, if not two generations. These are women that were DIRECTLY impacted by a society that did NOT view them as equals. Does this in any way make their extremist attitudes better? No, but it's always best to know where your opponents are coming from.

I do agree that most of the hard core feminists aren't shooting for equality, they're shooting for revenge. Revenge for any slight that was presented in the past. But as I don't believe that revenge is something worth worrying over I tend to blow most of them off. As a woman I know that how I'm treated is dependent on how I treat others; my worth is not measured by my gender but by my actions and contributions.

I will touch on something you said that sorta bugs me a bit more than the rest. You claim that men are just as shaped by the media as women, and I will have to argue that. Yes, to a certain extent men are shown that if they're 'cut' 'ripped' 'slender' it's better, but there's often a hundred successful, popular, famous men that aren't these things to balance it out. Women, on the other hand, in nearly every form of media exposure MUST be skinny and pretty to be sucessful.

Men have Bill Gates, Jerry Seinfeld, Woody Allen, Ozzy Osborne, and Donald Trump. Yes, they also have Chris Helmsworth, Will Smith, and Charlie Sheen; but at least there's more than the 'pretty boy' options for role models. Women on the other hand have Scarlette Johansen, Paris Hilton, Angelina Jolie, and Charlize Theron; we don't get a 'jane everywoman' option. You are either beautiful or you work hard to get there. The only woman I can even think for a while was 'normal' was Oprah, and even she spent years to get down to a media ideal of 'pretty'. Oh, I lie, I just recalled Adele; she is the first in a long time to show that beauty isn't a size two. But even then, if you look for images of her you are often just presented with her face, it's as though the media has a fear of presenting a 'real' sized human to women, as if they think they can deny their existence.

Every magazine we read tells us how to loose weight, loose inches, be prettier or skinnier. Most male magazines will have one article about working out(unless something like Mens Health and then that's just the wrong publication to compare against), not a million different things to show how being 'you' isn't good enough.

Does this mean we're more put upon, woe is me, Damsel's in Distress? Hell no. But it does give us a larger hurdle to overcome, often put there by other women as well as our selves. I'm not saying it makes us more entitled, but I am saying that it exists and is a very real, very serious issue.

And I guess what it boils down to is what I've already said. Everyone, male, female, white, hispanic, black, etc, need to not EXPECT equality. We are all human, but we are NOT equal. We are deserving of what we get based on if/how we earn it. I work hard for any respect, money, and benefits I get. I will not give those same benefits to someone who has not worked as hard as me, but I will also not limit someone to those same results if they go above and beyond. That, that is true equality.

[Meizicht]

Edit: Rereading again, I think you've actually misunderstood me. As I said below, I'm not talking about people who have actually experienced hardships, such as those who are generations older than me; I'm not so ignorant as you may think. I actually don't believe my opinion and way of thinking is very narrow at all, since I'm trying to look at all sides and not just one. I also don't think it's very right for you to judge my age just by what you believe I've said, just as I don't judge your age either; after all, it can be a little insulting. If you're thinking I'm young and ignorant, you may be surprised. I'm not like the majority nowadays at all.

All personal notes aside, I've never ever had a problem with people who have been through the ringer, experienced the real deal, and have survived it and lived on to try and make a change. As I've said below, who I have a problem with is people who either never experienced hardships ( or even if they have ) and use those things to get what they want. Money. Attention. Favoritism. On the contrary to what you've suggested, the majority of those that irritate me are younger than me, or are around the same age.

I never ever said that problems women face are nonexistant. Just because I said that men suffer the same in most aspects, doesn't mean that I implied that women don't. You don't have to be on either side to see it. I'm on both sides. And I consider myself very lucky to be able to think in such an open way in order to do so. Sure, women face hurdles. They have hard times. But everyone else does too. Nobody should exploit it. THAT is what I mean. /Edit.



I know I'm not part of the generation who've seen the hardships that past generations have ( I'm 21 at the moment ) and I never said that there weren't any now, nor am I against feminism at all. I agree that the media portrays things in such a way that makes things unfair, but the media isn't so much the subject that irks me when some of the things I see bring all of this up ( since I don't deny the fact that the media paints women in such a way ). It's the whole "I am a woman so I am better than any man" attitude that I've seen most feminists adapt nowadays. I respect and agree with feminists who are fair and aren't supporting a cause for personal gain, but when I see huge rants recently... it's all been ignoring the hardships that others suffer as well.

I'm upset that the media also supports their version of "feminism" in such a disgusting way, that it puts males to shame if they're victimized, but females are considered strong and amazing if they've been hurt the same.

Again, I would like to say, I tried to stress that I do not think all feminists are so blind. That would be ignorant. I'm basing this rant on the wave of "popular opinions" that seem to spring up recently on this subject. And it strikes a nerve in me because it's like anymore, most of the people who support this, do it for personal gain. Like, the way they act, the things they ask for, the stuff they "support" all seem to be for one common purpose: Men are shit, and all women should be treated as queens just because they are women.

At the same time, I'm no stranger to discrimination in many places. Women do have a hard time in certain jobs. Walmart is a huge example when it comes to that ( my mother used to work there in the early 90s. I highly doubt too much has changed since then either, judging by the lawsuit that happened a couple years ago. )

I think I may have neglected some things in my rant, though; feminism in general is not what ticks me off. My point was the people. For example, a woman who thinks the cause is great because that means she can do whatever she wants to her guy friends without any consequence because she is a woman; she thinks that life would be served to her on a silver platter if she threatens with sexism. It's those people, who come in tsunamis nowadays, who seem to've taken over the cause and twisted it into a selfish, angry thing, instead of a righteous, good cause.

Or the women who play the "oh woe is me" act for sympathy, even though nothing happened to them. For example, I see so many "I am a woman, so the world hates me", or "Can you have a child and walk in high heels?" or "I could be raped if I go outside at all" <<< all of this, when these people have never been hated, they live comfortably in nice houses with no worries, they haven't had a kid, never suffered like others have... yet they call themselves feminists just because they guilt trip males into worshiping them, but turn around and belittle males and abuse them.. It's those people who I have a problem with.

I have the same opinion as you do as far as respecting and equality ( though I wouldn't agree so much if it has to do with jobs and money anymore, since most people can't help but have nothing no matter how hard they try anymore. Me and most of my family being some of them. OTL ) and I think that should be looked at more than "woman and man". I don't think it's fair to anyone to be looked at for what parts they have, instead of what qualities they possess and who they are as a person.

Again, I would like to say, I never meant for it to come off like I was saying the hurdles don't exist at all ( I'd hoped I'd made that clear since I mentioned it a few times xD; ), my rant was about those who take advantage of it for their own selfish wants.

As far as the equality you talk about, with working hard enough for it; I think that needs more of a government work-out, since right now, everyone isn't being given a fair chance. But that's an entirely different rant on an entirely different subject ( economy xD ).



Edit: I forgot to add some more specifics.

When people take something that isn't sexist at all, yet take offense from it and blow it out of proportion just for attention or personal gain, is also something I see often of when it comes to nowadays' version of feminism. Like, for example, if a man in a line at a restaurant gets his order just fine, but the woman after him gets the wrong order by mistake, and she starts claiming that the restaurant is sexist because they gave her the wrong order while the man had the right order; something like this really grinds my gears. Or if someone bullies a female, and a woman who didn't know any of those involved decides to say it was sexism ( when guys get threatened and bullied just the same. )

Media does what's "hot" according to their "statistics". What "sells" is what's "popular", and of course, what sells is controversy. Personally, I think the media is disgusting. I normally can't even stand watching the news anymore with all their "kardashians" or however the hell you spell it, getting more weight than the WAR and things that are actually important. I cannot agree more with the fact that the media is shamefully unfair and does influence the minds of everyone who watches. In fact, whenever I see the media's version of "plus sized", I want to flip a train. Adele is my idea of beautiful, and I agree there really needs to be more like her in fame and fortune instead of piddlyass little prissy snots like Paris Hilton and all the other "whatsherface"s.

But at the same time, I don't think we should turn a blind eye to the other side of the coin either; whether your male or female, suffering is suffering. Nobody should have more "importance" than another. If a male is hurt the same way that a woman is hurt, the woman should not have priority over him; it should be the same.

[littl3chocobo]

here, here good sir/lady, you covered this quite well and i am happy to see /someone/ is here to stand up for it. yes girls get it hard but boys do too, a guy a few years ago was beaten raped and dismembered a few years ago and i only heard about it once in passing on the news on the radio, that was it, nothing else but when a pretty little blonde thing with breasts goes missing it's noted in the evening news with it's one three-to-five min special and as often as not a suspect or two. women and anorexia is still a hot topic and yet men under 25 are breaking out in cases exponentially and it is rarely mentioned. males sexual harassment is all but unheard of and the popular music people listen too anymore all supports the same gender myths railed against here


but then my opinions might not count, i have never seen a female have the holy hell beaten out of her just because she wasn't /enough/ of a woman not to be beaten until she bled out of at least a couple holes >>;

[Meizicht]

Lol, thanks. I'm glad that other people notice the bias the news has as well ( being that the news in this context is different than the general media, but still just as disgusting ). They paint women as precious, vulnerable things, when they are just as strong, even stronger, than men. I've seen a woman pin a man down, kick him, punch him, so it's not like women are fragile glass figures, and I hate it when women act like they are. I hate that it's taboo for a guy to be hurt, or to tell someone that they're suffering; just because you're a guy doesn't mean you should have to "suck it up" and keep it inside silently while women are told to tell everyone if they're hurt.

The anorexia thing is another subject I'm irked with as well. There are males who suffer from it, but you hardly hear about it. Does that mean they're not important because they're male? It shouldn't be that way.

At the same time though, I'm not dissing the entire feminism cause. Their problems and hurdles and sufferings do exist. As far as media goes, it just needs to be entirely redone in general to be fixed. I mean if not discrimination, expectations and stereotypes, it turns people into thoughtless robotic sheep who flock to trends like ants to a popsicle.

Ah but, going back to Fey's examples of famous women who don't fit the media's stereotype of "pretty", I want to list some who I thought were kickass.

Roseanne Barr was kickass; she was like a tv-mother to me, but she was a great role model to look up to, in my opinion. Rosie O'Donnell was also awesome in the peak of her fame, I believe. Again, Adele is possibly the most beautiful woman on earth in my opinion. Oprah's amazingly successful. Hilary Clinton may get flack, but look at what she's done, no matter if sometimes I don't agree with what she does; she's still majorly successful. Conchata Ferrell should be getting more and more well known because of her role as Berta on Two and a Half Men, since she's awesome in that role, lol. I'm sure there are many more that are making their way up there, but at least there are more than a few amazing women who aren't the type that the media tries to pass off as "ideal". At the same time though, those types who are passed off as "ideal" shouldn't be stigmatized also. Like Mayim Bialik, who plays Amy Farrah Fowler on The Big Bang Theory; I mean, she's not just an awesome actress, she also has a PhD in neuroscience. Hell, all the actresses on The Big Bang Theory seem to be completely awesome.

So there's also that. xD; /endramble.

[littl3chocobo]

oh roxanne~<3 i forgot about her, she was great wasn't she? sadly i don't do much with tv but i am fond of mama cass who had a voice that could melt you<3