[Illusion]

Originally Posted by littl3chocobo

where did you get 5000 tokens? no, this is 20,000 tokens for 20 runes XD

Lucid said it caps at 4,500, so I was just saying 5000.

Still even with 20,000 tokens the same problems are still there. People avoiding buying items in favor for runes. / A chance of abuse and rune becoming devalued.

[Lawtan]

It has a cap? *Has 6799 Anka tolkens*

[littl3chocobo]

that is not the cap at all, i have 10997 tokens and i have bought every item in the shop bar two(and i was not abusing mules either, my mule has it's own tokens and token items)


dude, if /you/ can figure out how to abuse those numbers go ahead. you seem to be under the mistaken illusion that tokens are pouring out of the site like water from the niagra. people might not buy all of the token items but that is good because it means people wanting to spend au can spend it on token items OR single runes. it is pretty solid to keep them so limited, most people can get about 10 runes easily enough over a few months of posting which spaces out anka item consumption though most people would want to get some of the items regardless just to have them including collectors of items


it's not great but it give people who own all the items an outlet and gives people who would not buy the token items anyway another option for those tokens AND best of all it encourages posting which is the entire point of this thread



oh, and there are two new token items XD

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by littl3chocobo

that is not the cap at all, i have 10997 tokens and i have bought every item in the shop bar two(and i was not abusing mules either, my mule has it's own tokens and token items)


dude, if /you/ can figure out how to abuse those numbers go ahead. you seem to be under the mistaken illusion that tokens are pouring out of the site like water from the niagra. people might not buy all of the token items but that is good because it means people wanting to spend au can spend it on token items OR single runes. it is pretty solid to keep them so limited, most people can get about 10 runes easily enough over a few months of posting which spaces out anka item consumption though most people would want to get some of the items regardless just to have them including collectors of items


it's not great but it give people who own all the items an outlet and gives people who would not buy the token items anyway another option for those tokens AND best of all it encourages posting which is the entire point of this thread



oh, and there are two new token items XD

Well considering that you have 10k anka tokens and all the items, why does the rates need to be increased/runes be added to for a token dump then?
If the runes cost too much it wouldn't encourage posting, and if they cost too little they create too many other problems.

I think a little birdy just wants runes xD.


CHEEP CHEEP.

[littl3chocobo]

because some people have gotten all the tokens they can get, as the third biggest poster in site history i can say there are a lot but for people who have not posted several hundred times in each forum some are just out of the question. people who do not rp or watch tv or play videogames will not be able to get those tokens without spamming and they should be allowed to get new items too, people who have gotten all of the posted milestones and want to keep posting are not butted up against a wall if there are new goals to be met and can keep spending

at 1000 tokens per rune they are within reason. true it will be incredibly hard to get a full 20 but that is what commerce is for


pffft i bought ten bucks worth just a few days ago and i already ran out of stuff to buy X''D i have plenty of runes hahahaha. what i want is for more people to post

[littl3chocobo]

you are basically saying 'why put more stock on a store shelf if there are other things people can buy instead?' in principal it can be argued that it is cost efficient to deplete stock but not everyone will go buy dried oysters just because the butter is sold out, do you understand me?

[Lawtan]

Wait, so we're talking about turning tokens into runes, and not making the token shop into the shop associated with things like thread-making?

*Misunderstood/is confused on the way the conversation has went*

[littl3chocobo]

oh, sorry XD basically i am trying to come up with ideas on how to give people more reasons to try for posting goals as well as give people who have already met those goals a reason to /keep/ posting

my thought is that a combination of offering recolors(easy on the staff) and runes(the most valuable commodity on the site) might work. illusion is trying to poke holes in these offerings and i am trying to build up my reasons for them XD nothing big, dont mind us

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by littl3chocobo

because some people have gotten all the tokens they can get, as the third biggest poster in site history i can say there are a lot but for people who have not posted several hundred times in each forum some are just out of the question. people who do not rp or watch tv or play videogames will not be able to get those tokens without spamming and they should be allowed to get new items too, people who have gotten all of the posted milestones and want to keep posting are not butted up against a wall if there are new goals to be met and can keep spending

at 1000 tokens per rune they are within reason. true it will be incredibly hard to get a full 20 but that is what commerce is for

More items will be added. People can still easily accumulate tokens to get items, and events make that easier. I easily accumulated 2,400 within the first two week of achievements release, and yes it did become slower after that. Not everyone is going to want every single item, and if they do they will post more.

For people who already posted and got all the non-event achievements and have too many tokens your suggesting to reset achievements to people who already posted a bunch to help encourage them to continue posting. And suggesting a token dump while resetting their achievements so they can earn a bunch of tokens again much easier, but at that point they already bought a bunch of the older items and will be going straight for the runes as their clear goal with the random new items delaying their goal.

That's making it even easier for additional rewards to people who already post a lot, and make tokens even more easier to obtain for everyone else because of how easy early achievements are. You need to eliminate that easy part. Because if not then you're just just setting every up onto the same path of over time to save up for runes, that's not solving any of the problems you brought up with gaining a bunch of tokens in the first place, that's creating a lack of motivation. Not to mention this pops up again:

Runes costing too little = Problems
Runes costing a lot = Not rewarding enough

That's why the current system is the way it is, the solution is more achievements that slowly get harder for people who post a lot, and a ton of items to choose from to induce spending.

But you do make a point that people who already post a lot need motivation to continue posting. Which leads us back to this thread. xD

edit: Oh look I just made 1,000 tokens for this being my 5,000th post since the Token system was put into place. I feel like this is slightly ironic.

[littl3chocobo]

first and formost. i was gone for nearly two whole years and there are like a half dozen new items that have gone into the shop in that time...... don't play /that/ card with me. saying that the answer is introducing new items only works if new items actually get introduced

aside from that your comment is kind of gibberish. i read and reread and read allowed what you wrote and a bunch of it is either nonsensical or circular and says nothing at all, you should clarify and condense ok? so, please reiterate

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by littl3chocobo

first and formost. i was gone for nearly two whole years and there are like a half dozen new items that have gone into the shop in that time...... don't play /that/ card with me.

Granted there weren't hardly any updates in the past months and or years. With the primary focus (and struggle) was to release monthlies. So yes I am playing that card. And why I was suggesting other ideas to help posting that doesn't revolve around anka tokens.

aside from that your comment is kind of gibberish. i read and reread and read allowed what you wrote and a bunch of it is either nonsensical or circular and says nothing at all, you should clarify and condense ok? so, please reiterate

Long story short (while trying to explain the best I can) resetting achievements would just make it easier for people who don't post a lot get a ton of anka tokens. Thus leads to the same problem people already posting a lot are having, too many anka tokens.

Your idea of a anka token sink was so people who have a bunch of tokens can just buy runes instead because they bought everything else. But if the system resets that means everyone has will gain too many tokens from moderate posting in general. So everyone will be in the same boat of just saving for runes after a quick period.

That's not a incentive to post, that's just making it easier to get all the items already in the shop and them some. It's better to just keep the current system with newer achievements added in for people who already collected all the tokens and to just add a bunch of token items. (Event recolors and so on.)

And I bring up this:
Runes costing too little tokens = Many Problems Said before/would be incentive but causes problems
Runes costing a lot of tokens = Not rewarding enough = not an incentive

Because if everyone has a easier time getting tokens throughout the year/years because of resets that means everyone easily can buy all the token items all because the reset made them easier. But no one would be feel enticed to post more because working for just 20 runes would end up being a yearly goal for something that you could just buy from someone for making around 100 posts instead of having to make over 10,000 posts. And if runes we're priced much lower it would devalue the currency and then there's the possibility of people using mules to effectively earn even more runes as well if priced low.

Old method is still best method, a anka sink with big purchase items simply doesn't work because the currency is limited. And to make the currency less limited would deter any sort of incentive it had.

introducing new items only works if new items actually get introduced

And it seems to be the only method that would work without becoming problematic.

Again last few years of staff inactivity = problems.
If things were running smoothly I'm sure there wouldn't had been a problem.

I think more than anything the amount of anka tokens that can currently be earned should be accounted for and items release to help counteract that number. :/

[littl3chocobo]

ok that was much easier and you do have a valid point on how easy it could be to abuse resets, of course there would be limits to the resets and they would not be /easy/ goals, 50 posts is never going to be viable but 150, 250, or 500 would be and this is to say that the rewards would not be super high


i still think though that 1000 tokens for one rune is a fair amount, with posting goals becoming exponentially higher there is a drop-off of how many people will choose runes over items and i still feel that as long as tokens are hard to get but not impossibly so there is incentive, also newbies see this cash currency being able to be bought with work instead of cash and think it is worth it to post a lot, by the time they realize it is very hard to make enough they are (usually) invested in the site. this is a basic business practice AND it has been shown to work

as long as we moderate it is feasible and viable

please explain the 100 posts bit? i don't understand where you get your numbers

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by littl3chocobo

ok that was much easier and you do have a valid point on how easy it could be to abuse resets, of course there would be limits to the resets and they would not be /easy/ goals, 50 posts is never going to be viable but 150, 250, or 500 would be and this is to say that the rewards would not be super high


i still think though that 1000 tokens for one rune is a fair amount, with posting goals becoming exponentially higher there is a drop-off of how many people will choose runes over items and i still feel that as long as tokens are hard to get but not impossibly so there is incentive, also newbies see this cash currency being able to be bought with work instead of cash and think it is worth it to post a lot, by the time they realize it is very hard to make enough they are (usually) invested in the site. this is a basic business practice AND it has been shown to work

as long as we moderate it is feasible and viable

please explain the 100 posts bit? i don't understand where you get your numbers

Average aurum you get from posting (when I see it) is around 40 aurum each post, times by 100 = 4k. Which is where runes are typically priced (if not more) if someone actually tries to go out and buy them right now in general (I try to keep tabs of prices right now, sort of hard when the marketplace needs to be revitalized in someway). But I'm just generalizing the number. Even if someone A is sell and then person B is willing to buy 20 runes for 20k that's still 500 posts compared to having to make 10000+ (not to mention there being other ways to make aurum.)

Still it's easier and more worthwhile to just buy runes with just aurum, runes no matter how high you price them won't influence people to post more. And to just have people waste 20k tokens on 20 runes, wouldn't be very prudent of the system that it has set in placed.

by the time they realize it is very hard to make enough they are (usually) invested in the site.

That's so evil, I like it. But not in this way. That's actually a good way to lose people. It's like putting a plunger on a dogs head with a treat tied on a string at the end of it. They're be active to get the treat, but they will never get one through that method. Granted 20 runes isn't incentive enough while you still have regular posting/aurum in general.

But still evil. SO EVIL.... I like this evilness side of you. Wanna do brunch and talk world domination?

[Coda]

Keep in mind that we have artists and momentum now that we haven't been able to muster for a long time -- we've been running on a skeleton crew for years; we went through a LOT of people who promised a lot during interviews and then disappeared without producing much. Now we're actually looking at having the capability of actually getting ahead of schedule, so things WILL be changing.

[littl3chocobo]

it's evil if we do the plunger but this is more along the line of making a dog do four or five consecutive tricks for a treat. i did say hard but not impossibly so. it should be a goal that CAN be met but not in the first month of activity(unless the person is a posting maniac. you lose people if noone can make the goal but you get people to come back for more if they feel like they have well and truly earned what they have gotten and feel that they can win something for 'nothing' through perseverance. this is why phone games are so darn popular, they use the same method(though not always well)

i will say this though, you are making a lot of assumptions when you say a person can just spend 5k in the marketplace this requires not only for there to be runes to sell but for the seller to sell at that low of a price AND this is if the buyer in question can afford the 5k (which they cannot unless they are already posting quite a lot)

[Lucid:]

I never said 4500 was the cap, that's just what I personally have been sitting at for a very long period of time. What Choco said is true; it's extremely difficult for people who don't post hundreds of times in a single subforum to gain the higher tiers of achievements. On top of that, with the forum restructuring, the token cap that DOES currently exist has been reduced by 1000+ tokens (don't know the exact number).

First step is to get achievements all sorted out for the new forum structure, second step is to get more things to spend tokens on, and third step would be to add higher tiers of achievements where necessary. Recurring achievements could be a consideration if a token sink is ever put in place, but right now that's not really on the radar. I would much rather see more regular token shop updates.