[Lucid:]

You really can't really claim anything about the purpose of buying low and selling high when you're purposely buying high. That's a whole new game. And buying higher than the asking price before anybody is offering anywhere near the offer made IS artificial inflation.

We can't exactly live by the Gaia definition of artificial inflation because we're not Gaia. We have a completely different marketplace than they do. Gaia's artificial inflation happens mostly in the MP, not the exchange.
If someone pays a higher price and then everyone follows, sure, that's natural inflation. But if someone, or a small group of people, pay a higher price and everyone complains about it, that's artificial inflation at work.

If an Anka set hasn't sold for a whole year and someone wants to put a general estimated price on it, that's not artificial inflation because there's no standard market value on it. People might buy it at that price, they might not. It's hard to make a straight sale on an item that is rarely sold, and that's why auctions/offers are handy.

I'm not sure how or if I will be able to enforce an artificial inflation rule completely, but I do think that there should be a better distinction between selling and taking offers. Because right now, most "sales" in our marketplace are actually short-term auctions.
There may be a fuzzy line on where sales and offers meet, but there's still a line. The way I see it, if the seller has a general idea of how much they want to sell for, and states their price in the thread, then it's a sale, even if some haggling and offering goes on, even if the item sells for either higher or lower than the original asking price. If the seller doesn't tell any of the potential buyers how much they're looking for, and just lets the offers go up and up until they've gotten the best deal, that's not a sale, that's an auction.

[Illusion]

xDD I love how you explain a buyers artificial inflaiton.

Originally Posted by lucid

But if someone, or a small group of people, pay a higher price and everyone complains about it, that's artificial inflation at work.

xDDDDD
I'm sorry.. That's just.. *face palm* I'm laughing so bad right now xD

No if a small group of people are buying for a higher price, they are just buying something for a higher price. If people complain about it, they are just complaining about it.
That's not inflation, unless everyone is paying the same exact amount that's inflation. But not artificial inflation. Its only artificial if that group sells the items afterwards for extremely high prices.

And I did try to find a better definition of artificial inflation, but the word artificial inflation we use comes from Gaia to begin with. So it is the most appropriate fit.

So the way I see it, right now with the DI's it isn't artificial inflation if everyone else is paying for it. Only if someone is buying all of them out of the system and then selling them for higher. So basically its just supply and demand.

[Coda]

Artificial inflation didn't originate with Gaia. :/ It's been studied in economic theory for nearly a century.

But perhaps what you're looking for, then, isn't the term "artificial inflation" but rather "anti-trust legislation". Lucid's description VERY MUCH fits the definition of price fixing: An individual or group of individuals act to purchase goods at a value other than the normal market price, causing a direct influence of that market price to align with what those people with the buying power are paying.

You pull that stunt in the real world, at least in the US, and you're going to find yourself in a lawsuit. Microsoft's been staring down the barrel of THAT gun for years because they have the buying power to pay hardware manufacturers more than their competition in exchange for selling computers with Windows preinstalled at prices that Microsoft dictates.

Now, I'm not accusing you of price fixing, but the effect is much the same: By willingly paying so far above the market value just for the sake of making sure you get one, the sellers will raise their prices to meet the demand. You are inducing an artificial change in the supply-and-demand curves, to the detriment of the less fortunate users -- users that are the lifeblood of our site; we MUST NOT develop a reputation that our users are separated into the rich and the poor and you have to be rich to buy anything.

And before you say that isn't going to happen, observe that this thread even exists.

[Illusion]

I never said the word artificial inflation orginated from gaia, I said the common use of the word we know today came from Gaia.
And Coda you pretty much described what I was saying. A bit... I never heard of a artificial supply and demand before.

My only question is, how to prevent it. Can trisphee really have a rule against anti trust legistration? I can't really see that happening or working. As of now all this talk about a market ect is giving me... Well, you know that feeling you get when you are actually learning outside of school and you overloaded yourself with information? Yeah that xD

[Ashley]

Originally Posted by Lucid

If someone pays a higher price and then everyone follows, sure, that's natural inflation. But if someone, or a small group of people, pay a higher price and everyone complains about it, that's artificial inflation at work.

Just because people complain about something inflating it doesn't mean the inflation is artificial. o_o

Trust me I was on another site during their everyone is complaining about inflation time(and it was a good chunk of the population). Actually it was like 50% against and 50% for. Eventually people started paying the new price of their donation currency. Now that price is normal. Most people would probably complain if people valued it at the old price in offers XD. I think people complain because people are creatures of habit and resist change. It has nothing to do with rather the inflation is artificial or not.

Personally when I buy a DI I pay what I think it's worth. For example I bought this month's DI set for 8.5k. Personally, I find that to be a reasonable price. I wasn't paying it because I have tons of aurum to spend. It was almost all of my aurum at the time. I payed it because I find it reasonable with all things considered. That isn't artificial inflation at all <.<. Especially since that's the only set I'm(and probably other people who pay similar prices are) buying.

I don't see as many rune/current DI sellers either the last few months, at least not when I've been on, so that's part of it too. I used to be better at catching people selling them XD. Less supply + demand = inflation. I don't see how it's artificial supply and demand... unless I missed something, which I do a lot.

[Illusion]

I like Ashleys comment xD fits my thoughts perfectly. Especially the part of people resistant to habit changing. That was the first thought that came to mind when all of this started.

No you didn't miss anything, that's about it. Unless I missed something too.

[Coda]

We can definitely put rules in place for price controls. ("Anti-trust legislation" isn't synonymous with "artificial inflation" -- I wasn't meaning to make it sound like they were the same thing. Anti-trust legislation is the laws passed to prevent rich people from screwing with the economy.) It's fairly subjective, yes, but it's pretty simple to say that the mods are going to keep an eye on people asking for or offering amounts unreasonably higher than the average without justification.

The problem is that in a community this small normal economic stresses don't work to keep the free market under control: sellers will ALWAYS find a buyer no matter what the price is because the supply of currency is, essentially, unlimited. This is an issue that's always going to happen with currencies that aren't tied to any fixed resource -- many countries in the real world have discovered this problem the hard way, and many video games have had their economies ruined by this simple fact. External non-economic pressure is the only solution: that is to say, rules.

[Ashley]

So what exactly is considered justification? If we think it's reasonable and have reasons to back it up?

I mean honestly it seems like one person thought 8.5k was so unreasonable that they had to post it in the thread that I bought it from.

[Illusion]

Likewise, I've wanted 4k per for a while so I think its reasonable.
I like this right now, were talking about things I've already thought over. So now its just smooth sailing in this debate until we find a neutral solution.

[Ashley]

Yeah, 4k per is perfectly reasonable in my opinion. And if people pay a bit over that now and then it's not a big deal.

[Coda]

4k probably IS reasonable. I don't think anyone's complaining about 4k.

[Ashley]

Hm well someone complained about me paying 8.5k for a set and that's only 4.25k per. I mean they actually said it wasn't worth that XD. So apparently it isn't that reasonable in some people's eyes.

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by Coda

4k probably IS reasonable. I don't think anyone's complaining about 4k.

Nearly everyone here was complaining about 4k-5k each xD

[Nightmare]

I think 5k for an item is starting to get costly. x n x

[Ashley]

Yeah I just looked back through the pages XD.

Also, how does it deter newbies(referring to older posts) I wonder. I mean when I join a site I don't care how much the current monthlies cost I just post and if I get them great. If I dont, then fine I'll just buy them for a little more later. Also I doubt people who join a new site feel like if they don't get the current monthlies that it's the end of the world. I mean they're new I'm sure they know that they can't afford everything right off the bat.

night: yeah 5k per should be highest end for now I'd say

[Illusion]

It's amazing how people don't want change when they are so used to something. I'm fine with change as long its backed up with real supporting detail, has room for change, is open for ideas, but most importantly. Its not stupid.