[Quiet Man Cometh]

Oh dear, I see another poster who's going to send me to a dictionary every fifteen minutes. :p.

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

I agree with Quiet, again. Poetry will often write itself, so long as you let it. Just a though, poetry that writes itself has a tendency to leave a trail of bread crumbs leading to whence it came. It's a great way to express yourself. As I said before, this poem is kind of revealing, it's speaking about a very general plight that is very specific to you, but resembles the human condition. A lot of your poetry does this. It's a common theme I've noticed with you. It's like you've decided to claim the wait of the world as your own so that you can properly share it with others.

Cool. Just an opinion though.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

That's... interesting. I've never had anyone tell me anything like that before. I don't think you're wrong though. Possibly not the way I would word it, but I think there's truth to what you say. Gives me something to think about.

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

Ahem *weight*, not wait. :P

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

Maybe not claimed. Maybe more so been... errr... bestowed upon. Though I suppose in some way, you have claimed it, at least, acknowledged it. After all, it is your plight as much as it belongs to everyone else. I'm rambling.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

No, I think you're pretty dead-on there. It's very much not about me as an individual. I think in a lot of cases my "I" is speaking for humanity as a whole. Meanwhile, "God" most of the time is sort of the ideal we as a race aspire to within ourselves, but that is forever out of reach. Now I'm rambling.

But, I guess my primary theme is humanity's relationship to itself. Through the metaphor of religion, since I just find that perfectly apt for such a comparison.

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

Religion was originally designed for community, which is why satanism is (was) considered the opposite of most monotheistic religions, because satanism was originally the concept of (at least to my understanding) isolation and self worship. It simply makes SENSE that your plight, which is a direct reflection of the plight of the modern church and society, so strongly relates to the human condition. I hate to break it to you, but it turns out that your human. (WHAT?!)

I feel like I'm over stepping. But I am enjoying this conversation. It's somewhat enlightening. I have more to say, but I'd rather you respond first, I don't want to take this conversation too far.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

(Don't have much time now, need to be off to school soon, so this'll be a bit short.)

Well, in large part I think my "plight" as you put it lies precisely in being human. I mean, at the heart of it, my poetry is in large part, I think, rage and frustration over being an incarnate, embodied entity bound by time. Not that... I have an alternative suggestion for how I (or anyone) should exist. And that's where God comes in, as sort of the ultimate target for my feeling of injustice at the nature of reality.

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

So then why don't others, the rare exceptions and even some of the common masses who manage to find some alleviation to the human condition, necessarily empathize this plight? On some level, that makes it seem self-created. Maybe you could chalk it up to being a lack of awareness, sheeple feeling rather depressed and not knowing why, but there are a few out there that don't feel this way, that some how manage to overcome it.

Hmmm... this is a sticky subject.

And I would argue with you over the time concept, but I don't feel it necessary right yet.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

If you want the simplest answer, in my opinion, I think it's because our brains are naturally inclined to slide around issues like this. From an evolutionary standpoint, it's more beneficial not to be fixated on this "plight" as we're calling it here.

To your second point, I do think there exist certain transcendent individuals who can apprehend the problem, and then move past it (perhaps with ease). It makes me think of more introspective religious practices like Gnosticism or several Eastern traditions that dwell more upon the dimensions of the self and (supposedly) thereby come to the terms with the universe. Discovering the macrocosm through microcosm, if you will. I'd almost say that those people are the only ones who truly live.

But.

I do feel some slight need to qualify that statement. I'm not actually obsessed with this issue, if you'll believe that. Probably more psychological sliding-around of corners. But, it's not as though I wrack this poetry out in some attempt to come terms with or find peace with my life -- it's really just something creative I do as a hobby, though, yes, of course, they are things I think about a lot. They just don't consume me, is what I'm saying.

And of course there's tells to be found. It isn't possible for a writer to divorce themselves wholly from their work, there will always be the underlying psychological fingerprints, as it were. I think what the bottom line to me is that what comes out in my poetry is only a portion of myself; I don't tend to put the other aspects into words.

Hopefully that made some kind of sense...

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

*Ding ding ding*

By the way, I should fore-mention, I am a Jewdeo-Christian Pagan. I follow Kabbalah and study Gnosticism. I also study Taoism and Buddhism, but have recently set aside those for the time being.

Irony that you mention them.

And yes. It did. Perfectly.

(I also don't believe in irony.)

[Suzerain of Sheol]

That sounds like a secret recipe for transcendence. :p

I'm actually non-religious myself, I just find it a fascinating part of human nature to study. Unfortunately, my stack of texts to read is very large and I'm only working through them very slowly, so I still have a lot to study yet before even my basic foundation is complete.

I actually just finished reading the Apocryphon of John. Fascinating book. If was going to follow something, I think Gnosticism would be it, or at least the groundwork of a more intricate set of beliefs. One thing that annoys me about organized religion is how entirely commercialized for mass consumption it seems. The more "mystical" occult systems seem so much more... spiritual.

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

It's all a matter of perspective. The commercialized religion you see is commercialized. The religion you don't see, isn't. The mystical occult systems seem more spiritual not because they are more spiritual, but because they aren't commercialized. Religion is not spirituality, spirituality comes from the self. If you want more spiritual, don't pursue religion, pursue the self.

Religion was originally intended to be community, not rules to becoming more spiritual. Religion was about unity. The religions I'm pursuing are more so about unity of self and being a part of the "God current" creation energy that seems to be our origins and future.

Really, religion is just a tool. More often than not, the quality of the religion is really dependent more so on the user than the religion itself. Religion is, after all, a human fictitious creation. It's just like countries, just like borders, just like race. It doesn't really exist. The only thing that really does exist is the human condition and our pursuit to accomplish (fix) it.

Something interesting; in the original Jewish language, the spoken form of Hebrew, there was no word for spirituality; not because they weren't spiritual, but because everything was already assumed to be spiritual. To have identified something as spiritual was to assume that there were things that are NOT spiritual.

Key note, everything is spiritual, its whether were aware of it or not.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Wow... my entirely-too-corporeal brain is refusing to cooperate right now at any level beyond: yeah, you're right, I knew that more or less, not... articulating... things... well... must... sleep....

[Arsis_von_Neaera]

Yes. I win. Ha. Eat it.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Yes, yes, well argued, sir, enjoy your victory.