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Meizicht Meizicht is offline
Cage
Default I have a question ( Answered and being worked on )   #1  
Relationship-wise. Not necessarily about me or anything to do with me, it's just in general though there are specific details. It's just something I've pondered about.

Would you encourage someone to dump a person if they're.. say.. manipulative? They guilt trip to get their way a lot, even with petty things, trying to get undivided attention from the person they're dating. They wouldn't hit or get physical or anything, just like.. they're generally kind of difficult. Would you tell someone to dump someone like that?
For example.. (A) wants (B) to play a game with him/her. (B) gets distracted easily, sometimes wanders to do other things, and (A) gets really upset about it, guilt trips (B) all the time about it, and tries to manipulate (B) into doing what (A) wants. And it happens frequently.

Knowing that (A) is generally selfish, and he/she demands a lot of attention/time spent with him/her and mostly has an attitude 24/7..
And (B) is a nice person who's had a hard life, who is the kind of person who takes (A)'s manipulation in stride though sometimes may get upset about it..

Would you encourage (B) to get rid of (A)?
Would you also consider (A) a bad person? Like generally, not like on par with rapists or anything.
Would you be friends with (A) if you had a choice? Or do you think (A) would be a bad friend?
Would you think (B) has better options? Would you encourage (B) to explore those options?

Please give me lots of answers. I want a lot of opinions.
Last edited by Meizicht; 09-06-2012 at 09:08 PM.
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 02:00 AM Reply With Quote  
Default   #2   Chi Chi is offline
Delicate Soul
In my opinion, I would need more of a back story.
I'm friends with a person who is like (A), demands attention from his/her love, manipulative and a hypocrite. This person however only acts like this with his/her love, not with his/her friends. Completely different with his/her friends.

I would only really encourage (B) to leave (A) if it got physical. Not to be a jerk or anything but it's none of my business if (B) dates (A). I didn't appreciate it when people encouraged me to break up with my ex because they didn't like him. It wasn't something I wanted to hear, so I wasn't about to do that to them. I have suggested to my friend before, "You know, so-and-so doesn't treat you right." but I stopped because if I don't like it why would my friend?

Actually, one of my friends was dating a girl who treated her like crap and was a cheater. I merely told her I felt she wasn't a good person, I was being honest in how I felt. But I didn't tell my friend, "Dump her, she's garbage and you don't deserve that." because if she wants to date her, that's her choice.

I know people will disagree with me but I would only really get involved if it got physical.

I have encouraged others to look for better because I have been encouraged to look too. I would only encourage it if my friend was ready to date again and if s/he is single, not still in the relationship.

[/2cents]


Broken Spirit
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 02:40 AM Reply With Quote  
littl3chocobo littl3chocobo is offline
isn't that funny
Default   #3  
i couldn't say, is person b happier /with/ person a or /without/ person a?
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 02:47 AM Reply With Quote  
Default   #4   Gallagher Gallagher is offline
It Won't Stop
This sounds like a... complicated situation, but not uncommon... It's hard to figure out where to start, but...

(A) is not a bad person for that. No one is ever bad simply for wanting things, even if they tend to be manipulative to get them. Because there's more to these situations than just the surface.

What is it that makes (A) need all of this attention? Is it just how they are, how they've always been, or is there some bigger issue there, left untouched and grown to manifest into this behavior? Are they aware of how they can be, or do they brush it off with excuses?

Maybe most importantly, if they are aware of it, are they bothered by it? Is it something they try to change, but can't? Or do they feel like they'll never be able to change it?

...

For several months, not too long ago, I was being emotionally abused by one of my friends. I loved her dearly, and probably always will. She would guilt me into doing what she wanted, when she wanted, just how she wanted it. If I wasn't good enough, or wasn't fast enough, or wasn't enthusiastic enough, we would end up fighting. Fighting, of course, meaning she would get angry at me, I would be left not knowing what to do or say, and my silence (or poor wording) would keep her in a downward spiral that never ended anywhere nicely.

She never meant for any of that to happen. She knew exactly how bad of a friend she could be, and hated herself for it, but never could change it. The situation between us was... complicated. In the end, it just did not work. She was left more depressed than ever, and I've... well, I'm not the same person as I used to be.

I always believed there was hope for her to improve. And she was getting better. I'm sad to say that I wasn't strong enough to carry on with her. Even with how much I've been hurt, I wish that I could have been, because even people who seem impossible to be friends with deserve a chance to better themselves.

If (B) feels like they can handle the struggle, that it's worth it to be with and help the one they love, and if there is no physical abuse and the mental strain isn't causing permanent damage, no one has any right to insist that they break up. No one.







Old Posted 09-05-2012, 02:48 AM Reply With Quote  
Meizicht Meizicht is offline
Cage
Default   #5  
Chi: Thanks for your input-
(A) is like that friend of yours; only like that with (B). (A) has expressed his/her regret for doing that, but doesn't seem willing and/or able to change it. (A) is not a physical person, so he/she would not physically abuse another, but (A) could be taken as verbally abusive. He/she had also been told that by others.

If one of the two, (A) or (B) had asked this themselves, would your opinions be different? Since of course, outside parties really have no business in it, but if one of them had asked for help in this situation, what would you say, if your answer is different?

Fleshing them out with backgrounds might give people some bias, so I'm trying not to do that. xD;



littlechocobo: I wouldn't be able to say, since this is a hypothetical, faceless kind of question. xD
But I would say (B) is happier, because he hasn't been with many others before. He/she may actually have a chance to be happier with another, if he/she didn't think he/she had to settle for (A), possibly.



Gallagher: That is pretty much exactly how I mean for (A) to sound. He/she does express guilt and regret and his/her attitude, but even despite his/her trying to change it, he/she never does. So it makes this a bit complicated, as you said.
( I can't really say what would make (A) like this since it could be any number of things; it's a generalized situation, really. xD; )
I think it mostly leads to, would it be better for (B) to rid himself/herself of (A) so (B) could find even better happiness without the ties of (A)'s attitude?
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 02:58 AM Reply With Quote  
Default   #6   littl3chocobo littl3chocobo is offline
isn't that funny
well if they are happy /regardless/ of if they can do better than i say leave it alone
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:04 AM Reply With Quote  
littl3chocobo littl3chocobo is offline
isn't that funny
Default   #7  
in fact there were a couple asop fables saying the same thing, it could always be worse and if you are happy enough leave it be
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:05 AM Reply With Quote  
Default   #8   Gallagher Gallagher is offline
It Won't Stop
Everyone in this situation will be biased. (A) for themselves, not wanting to lose someone they care so much about, but also wanting (B) to have as much happiness as they possibly can, because for dealing with all of that, they certainly deserve it. (B), from what I can gather, is likely to think that it's worth it to deal with some attitude, because there's so much more to (A) that more than makes up for it. Friends, of course, will likely side with those they're closer to, and in this situation, I think only (B)'s would be of any worry.

Everyone is likely to be against (B)'s wishes, but it's (B)'s choice to make. If they leave or if they stay, no one, not even (A), has a right to force.







Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:05 AM Reply With Quote  
Meizicht Meizicht is offline
Cage
Default   #9  
I would think so as well ( as in leave it be if (A) and (B) are happy with each other ) but I also read in a lot of different places that maybe (B) has been blinded into thinking he/she's happy. If that is the case, and (B) is hiding his/her unhappiness, should (A) end the relationship for his/her sake?

I'm taking into consideration what Gallagher said, about (A) not having a choice in what (B) thinks, but at the same time, (B) may not be happy, but appears so in order to make (A) happy.
If the situation was like that, would it be good or bad if (A) insisted on breaking up?
( (A)'s feelings, as the abuser, should be looked at as irrelevant here. )
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:28 AM Reply With Quote  
Default   #10   Chi Chi is offline
Delicate Soul
Don't give background if you're uncomfortable. xD;

I've caught myself saying, "I wouldn't be friends with so-and-so because they act like such-and-such!" but then I have a similar friend who is like that. It honestly depends on what their background is like.

And I can understand that too. I was really attached to one of my exes because my family life was kind of harsh when I was a teen. Not as harsh as others but it got pretty bad sometimes. I digress though. With experience I don't demand attention from my significant other, however, I do feel that almost everyone appreciates that attention they get, forced or not.

If (B) or (A) came to me and said, "I'm looking for some real straight to the point bluntly honest advice." I would give it to them, but also suggest to maybe not take it to the heart as much because it's not my life it's that person's life. When my sister said things about my past relationships, and she said plenty..., I didn't tell her to shut up or I didn't want to hear it. I simply stated, "I get what you're saying and I respect your views. Thank you for giving me advice but in the end I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do."

If they ask you to be honest, bluntly honest, then be that way. They can't be mad at you for giving them what they asked for.


Broken Spirit
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:31 AM Reply With Quote  
Meizicht Meizicht is offline
Cage
Default   #11  
Chi: I get what you're saying; I actually agree for the most part. Most people usually just tell you to ditch people like (A), and I would keep believing answers like that, if it wasn't complicated. Want to widen my perspective on it; not many people try to understand the abuser, since the abuser is presented as evil and all bad. Which would also be fine; if it was black and white, a decision, if one came up, could be made within split seconds.


Anywho.. Anyone can answer this question also ( it's not just for Chi, lol )
If you were (B), what would you do?

Just try with the vague information; I know it's not much, but it's the most I can give without making up specific characters, lol
Last edited by Meizicht; 09-05-2012 at 03:43 AM.
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:38 AM Reply With Quote  
Default   #12   Gallagher Gallagher is offline
It Won't Stop
In a case like this, I'm not all that sure that anyone's feelings should be irrelevant. If (A) cares enough to think about breaking up for (B)'s benefit, then that says right there that those feelings are real and they matter. Of course, there's the possibility that (A) could fake things like that just as well as (B) could fake happiness. What's called for, to me, seems to be many long conversations, not this black and white, yes or no, stay or go. Life isn't lived in extremes like that. If (B) cares, they need to own up to their feelings, good or bad. If (A) cares, they need to open up these talks (even if nothing in their behavior changes right away) instead of making choices that could have them both unhappy.

I agree with Chi. If an honest opinion is asked for from someone acquainted with more than hypothetical, they should give it.

If I was (B), I would be doing what I could to find out what's causing the behavior. Giving up on people is not something I'm known for, even if I don't go out of my way to spend every second with them. But, I'm the first to admit that I'm a bit different from the norm. Until I know what's going on, breaking things off simply wouldn't be an option at all.







Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:47 AM Reply With Quote  
Chi Chi is offline
Delicate Soul
Default   #13  
I wouldn't pretend to be happy. I would tell (A) how I felt if I was (B). I'm very honest and open with people, if I have something to say I will say it. And I would hope if I'm being honest with (A), (A) would be honest with me. I'm not going to pretend to be okay.

In perspective if I had someone who was like (A) I would try talking to them about it. I told my ex before about the way he treated me if I felt I was being mistreated and he would change or at least try his hardest. In my eyes, if you're trying to make an effort or at least trying, I'm not going to leave you because of that. But if I say, "Hey you know, I feel hurt by what you're doing." and the response is "Screw you, I'm not changing." then forget that, I will not consider being in a relationship with you.

If you're willing to try, I will help you if you ask. Or just help if I know you're struggling. Effort means a great deal to me. Admitting to your faults or problems takes a lot of courage too.

It seems that maybe (B) and (A) need to express to each other how they truly feel?


Broken Spirit
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:51 AM Reply With Quote  
Default   #14   Meizicht Meizicht is offline
Cage
Thanks, you guys, for your input. ^^ You've been helpful
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 06:22 AM Reply With Quote  
NeonSynth NeonSynth is offline
A Genetic Infection
Default   #15  
welll i have done that personally he is not good enough for her and A in my personal experience is a jealous selfish tool i could not even tallk to my friend at last con because she did not want him going off about anything it was sad and i actually encourage the breakup for her own good
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 02:41 PM Reply With Quote  
Default   #16   Meizicht Meizicht is offline
Cage
Neon: ^^;; I actually think so too ( though lets keep this genderless please. Neither A nor B should be thought of with a specific gender in order to keep things unbiased ).
Honestly, I should say here
that I am A, and my boyfriend Kai is B.
I always regret the things that I say ( even while I'm saying them ) to try and get him to pay attention to me, or do things with me, and I get terribly upset when he leaves, even for short periods of time, so I make him feel guilty; there is no excuse for it. But it's like a conditioned reaction.
I know, still no excuse. It's amazing how he has dealt with my crap for as long as he has.

I tried to ask this as vague as possible, because I knew I had friends here who would be biased since they know me, but not that side of me, since I only show it to him. All abuse is evil, and I'm one of the abusers; I know this. I want to change it, but no matter how hard I try, it just goes back to being the way it is.

I'm showing Kai this thread so he can make a decision himself, but.. yeah. Like I described before, he doesn't seem to care about my attitude, and has been reassuring me instead, which I don't deserve. x__x;

Bottom line is I'm abusive and he doesn't seem to mind.. which doesn't make it right.
The general response though, was to talk about it, so I'm trying to talk to him about it to see why I'm like this and if I can patch it up to where I don't act like this anymore. I know nobody wants to hear excuses from an abusive person, but wouldn't it be better for the abuser to be fixed instead of continuing to abuse others? Or maybe I'm simply a lost cause. xD;;

I'm trying, though.. Although that doesn't make me a good person, just to try. I'm still abusive, and that in itself is evil.
Last edited by Meizicht; 09-05-2012 at 03:16 PM.
Old Posted 09-05-2012, 03:10 PM Reply With Quote  
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