[Suzerain of Sheol]

Hmm, that might be worth trying.

I think I might be able to do fairly well if I could just master the alternating white and cyan bone attack that he does early on, I always end up eating like 90 damage there and it throws me off for the entire fight.

[Coda]

That one took me a long time, too. If you have near-frame-precise timing you can do it with only hitting the up button. Otherwise, do short hops left over the first and second white bones, a single long hop right over the third and fourth, and then short hops right over the rest.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

So, in other words, "git gud, scrub". :P

I'll give it another try tomorrow and see how it goes.

[Coda]

No, I can't do the frame-precise way either. :P I'm just sharing the technique that DID work for me, and it's not unreasonably difficult to use it. I can get through that attack undamaged about half the time, and I only get nicked the other half.

[Illusion]

I think I got around 40 or 50 tries with Sans. I don't remember off bat.

But what's most impressive with undertale and where other games should take not is how it interacts with the user. Toby Fox did everything masterfully. Flowey's evil was something that I never could imagine becoming justify until I the main character took his role and had the power he so had. To reset, retry, or go back to see different outcomes.

Making people believe the world is real and every character have something to like even though everyone is confused and wanting to kill you at first due to a misunderstanding and pressure of the world they live in. It all makes sense and just clicks together. The plot isn't as simple as it makes it out to be, being able to make something deep with an extra layer behind is something that a lot of game developers miss. Most developers want something like that and strive for it but end up with a complete mess because they forgot to tell the original story. A prime example of this in movie form is The Lorax trying to copy the backstory within a movie that Pixar's Wall'E did so masterfully.

I'm really looking forward to whatever Toby is working on now. Nintendo did reach out to him (Undertale port?) But it's been speculation that they want him to work on a new Earthbound which is probably a dream of his.

This is one of those games that only happen once every so often. The last game that was able to make such a positive reaction towards was Journey for the PS3 (now PS4.)

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Well, I made it to his second form twice last night. I think I'm improving.

And wait, Illusion, isn't the very thought that most of the monsters are trying to kill you itself a misunderstanding? I thought the whole point of LOVE was that the monsters have such innocent souls (SOULS?) that even negative thoughts from a human can cause them serious harm. Asgore's extreme reluctance to fight you, even though he's supposed to be the one with the greatest impetus to kill you, would seem to support that.

I guess it's the difference between Frisk turning enemies into friends, and Frisk overcoming their inherent fear of the situation they find themselves in to realize that the monsters are all mostly friendly.

[Coda]

When you say second form, do you mean when he offers to spare you? Good job. :D

I find the second half to require less precision but be more punishing when you do take a hit. With the exception of the wall-slam attacks and one attack that has two columns of bones with very little space between them, everything in the second half is reasonably easy to dodge if you're calm and aware once you learn the patterns, but it punishes you harder when you do take the hit.

I hope it's not a spoiler to point out that the bones can still hurt you when it's your turn.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Well, Coda, about the same time as your post there he just splattered me with his special attack. I made it all the way to the Unlimited Gaster Works at the end, my heart just happened to be on the wrong side of the box when they started spinning. Definitely getting better, though, on that run I didn't even need to heal until the second part. I think I'll get him soon (and then wonder why I bothered...)

[Coda]

I can get through the first half without needing to heal about half the time (and almost never more than once), and then I use one or two Legendary Heroes during the break where he spares you. I've gotten to the final attack with the Pie, the Noodles, and the Face Steak still in my inventory before, though both times I've actually finished it were times when I ran out of healing items before I reached the end.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Not going to lie, it felt really disheartening to die with a bunch of healing items still left. Feels like I just got careless with my health. Oh, well.

[Coda]

I know that feeling all too well. Beating yourself up over getting sloppy and/or cocky.

I probably could have knocked about 30 attempts off of my count if I just didn't try to play the game when I wasn't in a proper state of mind to be precise about it.

[MonkeyGirl18]

I can't get past Undyne the Undying, but that's because I'm terrible at games, lol.

[Coda]

Undyne took me 24 attempts. Those darn yellow arrows! She's mostly a memorization fight.

EDIT: Actually, the yellow arrows are annoying, but the rotating spear rings are worse. x.x

[Suzerain of Sheol]

I was stuck on her for a while, but I found using the armor you can buy from the turtle vendor that increases your i-frames, and using the Sea Tea he sells which increases your heart's movement speed, made her really easy. I beat her the first try after I went back and bought those. Don't get the weapon he sells though, it's weaker than the ballet shoes and the i-frame buff doesn't stack supposedly.

[Coda]

I used the Torn Notebook instead of the Cloudy Glasses so that I could wear the Apron for the HP regeneration, but yes, the +INV was wonderful.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

So. Twice now I've managed to take no damage until his second form, it's really just brutal pattern memorization in the end. What's been getting me on the last few runs is the out-of-context menu bones, had to heal way too many times from those before he got to his special attack. Still, I'm making it that far on like 50% of my runs now.