[Quiet Man Cometh]

I'm not the Tolkein nerd around here so I need to get my stuff from somewhere else. :p

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Okay, well, enough about what-if land, if no one minds.

We shall now talk about... elves. Do they seem consistent throughout his various stories? I have a bit of a hard time reconciling the kin-slaughtering, vengeance-oath-swearing, Balrog-owning tragic badasses of the Silm. with the singing, care-free sprites of Elrond's house in the Hobbit. And yet, some of them are probably the same elves...

[Quiet Man Cometh]

War time does mean things to people. That's the main thing I can think of. Compare the time when Morgoth was running amok to the Hobbit era and things must have seemed more cheery to them. Being interested in celebrating or in creating works of art and poetry or whatnot doesn't mean someone can't kid ass when they want/need to. That's just a general statement though. I've only seen the elves in the LOTR series so there's not much I can say about the Silmarillion elves that isn't hearsay. They did come off as more serious in Children of Hurin from what I read but again we're dealing with a different age on Middle Earth when Morgoth was moving around.

[Nanka]

I never read the book series nor have I watched the movies. I never really felt a need to. How would you rate the books compared to the movies between 1 - 10?

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Oh, you don't want to use my opinion as a guideline on that, Nanka. I have an almost irrational hatred of the movies. A lot of people love them, though. The book is slower and goes into a lot more detail about things, and the way it's written isn't all that exciting.

I'd say watch the movies first, and if you like them enough, give the books a shot.

@Quiet, that's very sound and sensible (as your points usually are), the only thing I'd raise in counter to it is that in the beginning of the Silm., before Morgoth steals the Silmmarils and Ungoliant kills the Trees of Light, the elves are all happy and enjoying making beautiful things like you mentioned above, and they still don't act like that.

[Nanka]

How long are the books? The movies are three freaking hours long and I can't pay attention that long. xD

[Suzerain of Sheol]

The books are 300ish pages each, the whole thing (if you get one of those all-in-one omnibus copies) is around 1,000 pages.

And just think, the extended versions of the movies are 4 hours. :p

[Nanka]

The book doesn't sound that long and maybe I'll give it a try. I've never really been into Sci-Fi before, but I should at least give it a shot. xD

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Actually, if you want a good introduction to Tolkien, look for The Hobbit, instead. It's only 300 pages and the plot moves a lot quicker (though it's a bit more... childish, I guess. It's still an awesome book). It's a really easy read, so it won't slow you down much if you want to get on to Lord of the Rings, and it sets you up in the world a bit, which can be helpful. I mean, it is, officially, the first part of the story, but it isn't absolutely essential that you read it first to know what's going on. It's just recommended. ;)

Lord of the Rings ups the ante on everything and gets a bit more bogged down in the world-building details, but it's still a great story and it's not *that* bad to take in for the first time.

The Silmarillion, on the other hand... uh, yeah, unless you really, really love Lord of the Rings after you read (particularly the world it takes place in), I'd stay away from this one and any of his other "extended universe" books that were published after he died. These are the ones that have 1,000+ characters in them (half of them with names beginning with the letter F) and spend entire chapters doing nothing but describing the landscape.

Hopefully, that's of some use as a guideline, at least.

[Nanka]

That would make me want to punch myself in the face. Also, how high was he when writing those last book or why wasn't he taking his medication? xD

[Suzerain of Sheol]

He was actually writing them his entire life, he just never really finished them, and his son wanted to cash in on his father's success wanted to finish his father's work, after he died, so he put all of Tolkien's notes together and published, I think, 15 or so books from them.

[Coda]

Which means that the normal editorial pruning and such J.R.R. would have applied to it... didn't happen. I suspect given the difference in loquacity seen between LOTR and Silmarillion that Tolkien KNEW his writing style was verbose and put some effort into editing it down before publication.

As for the movies... Yeah, they don't stack up to the books, but as standalone pieces of entertainment they're good.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

That's true. I imagine if Tolkien was still alive, he'd be unhappy that the Silmarillion (and all the rest) was published in the state it was in.

On the other hand, though, I'm glad that it was published, since it at least gives us a glimpse of his greater vision that he never got to completely fulfill.

[Nanka]

His son sounds like a prick. xD

[Suzerain of Sheol]

I obviously don't know him personally, but I kind of get that vibe from him. From his comments in the History of Middle-Earth books he comes off as a tad smug and overbearing.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

Did get that myself but then I have only read comments of his in Children of Hurin. Apparently he was appointed J.R.R's literary executor by J himself so his dad had some degree of faith in them. I didn't mind the writing in C.o.H at all and I would call it a good book as far as that goes compared to much of the other general fantasy books out there. It just so happens that I'm not all that fond of the character Turin, which puts a bit of a damper on things.

As for the books and the movies, I generaly see them as seperate entities rather than trying to compare the two since almost everythign changes from book to film: appearances, mood, tone, lines may be changed, lines may be moved to other characters, etc. Lord of the Rings trilogy is among my favourite movies though, and I watch it more often than I plan to read the books (those took me a while).

It might help to know, Nanka, that the "trilogy" thing is largely arbitrary, since back in the world wars paper was too expensive to publish a book that large all at once, so it was broken down into three. The story is in 6 parts and one can buy a box set which divides LOTR into the 6, smaller parts instead of the standard three or all in one.