[Suzerain of Sheol]

Originally Posted by johnny

Read about angels from actual theological books.

So very not boring. Lots of fire and wrath and stabbing things through the head.

Don't forget hiding behind six pairs of wings so as not to kill us pathetic humans with the sight of their AWESOME RESPLENDENCE! :D

Oh,and blazing wheels covered in eyeballs, those are always fun.

One thing that gets endlessly on my nerves is people thinking that Cherubim are cute little Cupid-looking naked chubby children instead of magnificent, terrifying four-faced monstrosities.

Anyway, I personally much prefer angels. I was into demonology a lot when I was younger, but I find it pretty boring anymore. angelology is just so much more unique and interesting, to me, especially since it has permeated pop-culture quite the way demonology has.

I don't really think there are many people in the world (barring saints and socio/psychopaths) who could really be described as angelic or demonic. We're pretty good at the "morally gray" thing, we homo sapiens sapiens.

[johnny]

Yes, we mustn't forget the six pairs of wings and wheels of eyes and fire.

And the bizarre fact that the four faces are of a man, lion, ox, and eagle.

(Good golly, you think Ezekiel was a bit out of his head when describing those things?)

Also: even when people don't describe cherubim as the four-faced hallucinogenic nightmares they are, they're still warriors. Like all the angels. Most depictions of angels in ancient art give all the angels weapons!

I have to wonder at what point in history people started nice-ifying the Soldiers of the Lord.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Well, there's always the theory that they were extra-terrestrial spaceships he was describing...

Seriously, though, Ezekial ties John of Patmos in my reckoning for the most deranged and/or ludicrously high authors of the Bible.

[johnny]

I don't think they were spaceships. I just think that Ezekiel was high, crazy, or friggin' both.

But his book is probably the most fun to read. Ezekiel, and maybe Revelation.

Any Biblical work that sounds like it wouldn't sound out of place being spouted by that crazy hobo on the corner - that's my good stuff, right there.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Revelation is a strange outlier in the Bible, to me. Like... when Ireneaus and the other early church fathers were deciding what was scripture and what was heresy, what made them include it? I mean, granted, it fits the overarching theological structure a bit better than, say, the Hypostasis of the Archons, but it reads like it was written by a lunatic who'd been exiled to a remote island for a couple decades where he found some rather interesting mushrooms. Oh, wait...

In all seriousness, I think Revelation, in all its surreal glory, is a coded message about resistance against the Roman Empire. That doesn't stop it from provoking the imagination, though. :p

[johnny]

My Intro to Religion professor came to the same conclusion of Revelation being a sort of long, strange allegory for overcoming oppression.

I guess the method for disguising the treasonous message was "Make this as unbelievably insane as possible and no one will suspect a thing."

It seems to have worked. People now equate it with the End of Days far more than the End of Governmental Persecution. xD

[Suzerain of Sheol]

I really wonder what the clergy, and by extension, the theologian community, must think of those End Times Prophecy followers. Probably a mix of pity and baffled amusement. :p

Come to think of it, I can't remember even once hearing the Book of Revelation read at church when I was younger, or ever even hearing about it in Sunday School. It kind of gives me the impression that it's something of the black sheep of the New Testament.

[Lucifer]

There is a cracked article that talks about 5 things you wont believe aren't in the bible, and angels are one it talks about all the proper ways of them instead the wheels of eyes and.. well some of the main types.

[johnny]

Originally Posted by Suzerain of Sheol

I really wonder what the clergy, and by extension, the theologian community, must think of those End Times Prophecy followers. Probably a mix of pity and baffled amusement. :p

Come to think of it, I can't remember even once hearing the Book of Revelation read at church when I was younger, or ever even hearing about it in Sunday School. It kind of gives me the impression that it's something of the black sheep of the New Testament.

My Religion professor was an ordained minister, and he thought they were all a bunch of loonies (although there were a handful of students in the class who believed in the "literal Bible", at which point I'm sure if they read Revelation they'd be absolutely boggled, but I suppose that "End of the World" would really be the only way to explain the craziness in that book if you wanted to interpret it "literally").

I think the reason you might not hear it at Sunday School or church is because it'd not exactly life-coaching material. Much of what it preached in churches and schools has some connection to the way people live their lives: do this, don't do that, etc. Perhaps Revelation's only "moral" is the idea of overcoming an offensive power and arriving at a sense of peace and freedom, but it's all blurred by the fantastical descriptions so it's just not the sort of thing one would base a sermon around.

[Hero]

I like both but in the long run, I would say I'm more of a devil because I'm pretty mischievous and enjoy causing trouble ._.;;

Oh wow. Deep discussion.
I'm going to have to back read o:

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Originally Posted by Lucifer

There is a cracked article that talks about 5 things you wont believe aren't in the bible, and angels are one it talks about all the proper ways of them instead the wheels of eyes and.. well some of the main types.

I just saw that article the other day, actually. It was amusing, mostly because it's so true. :p

I think the reason you might not hear it at Sunday School or church is because it'd not exactly life-coaching material. Much of what it preached in churches and schools has some connection to the way people live their lives: do this, don't do that, etc. Perhaps Revelation's only "moral" is the idea of overcoming an offensive power and arriving at a sense of peace and freedom, but it's all blurred by the fantastical descriptions so it's just not the sort of thing one would base a sermon around.

Mm, well, I wasn't sure if it was just my faulty memory or not, since I haven't been to a church in over ten years. But that makes sense, for the most part. I'd question why it's included in the Bible at all, but... there are a few other pieces in line ahead of Revelation jockeying for that question.

I took Philosophy of Religion in my third semester of college, but my professor was really keen to avoid any sort of religious debates that could lead to arguments, so we never really got to delve into the gritty details. We mostly learned logic and proofs and arguments, which was... not as interesting, to me. I'm considering taking another such class now that I'm out of community college.

[johnny]

My Intro to Religion class was 90% discussion. We had to take notes, but he'd ask us our opinions on everything. There were some class sessions where it was just debate and theorizing, like the Big Debate of Whether The Bible Should Be Taken Literally that completely exploded because people who take the Bible literally are notoriously stubborn and no matter what we tried to say, they tended to counter with "I know I'm right! I have faith!"

Oxymoronic, considering that "knowledge" and "faith" are mutually exclusive concepts and one cannot have knowledge of something and faith in that same something.

(Which was another explosive debate that happened a few classes earlier than the Literalism debate).

Religion classes can be dangerous to choose, though. Sometimes you get professors with far too much bias for the class to be any entertaining or informative, sometimes you get professors who don't want to insult anyone so they just take a neutral stance on everything and that ends up getting really boring, really fast.

@Lucifer:

I read that article. Cracked: Educating The Masses With Humor Since 1958.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

I should probably note that my professor was 88 years old and was a bit short on excitement when it came to the class. He would mostly just mumble for 50 minutes and then tell us to get out of there. It was, honestly, one of the worst courses I've ever taken, which is why I want to take something similar now that I'm in a (hopefully) higher caliber school.

And, it's probably best for keeping peace on the forum not to delve too much into hardcore religious debating, but I'll just note that I have yet to hear any argument for the truth of the Bible that doesn't assume its own truth a priori, which instantly deflates the entire argument, to me.

But, debating religion is a fairly pointless exercise, since our poor primate brains are predisposed to be dead-set about such things, despite any evidence to the contrary. Even things like the statistics on car accidents and divorce rate tend to trigger the "oh, but that won't happen to me, I'm one of the lucky ones" neuro-response.

[johnny]

Yeah, we've kind of derailed this whole thread. So...

ANGELS. How 'bout them four faces, amiright? :U

[Suzerain of Sheol]

*totally wants a Cherubim head item on Trisphee. And on Ophanim companion.*

[johnny]

That would be pretty neat, actually.

It'd be a hell of a lot more creative than the traditional "angel/demon" stuff found on avatar sites, wouldn't it?

And I want an AURA OF CELESTIAL MAGNIFICENCE item, too.

You should mention these on the Item Suggestions page.