[Lawtan]

We all know some of the greatest stereotypes that both fiction and real life are trying to overcome (*coughs* Disney Princess *coughs*)

This is quite obviously expanding what is available for women in fiction...but what about male fictional characters? What has changed to broaden their spectrum of personalities and character?

It may just be me, but from creative clothing (TERA's Power Ranger Armor this past Halloween ) to the personality/background...male characters in fiction often seem to be the same as 10-20 years ago.

This is not meant in any way to launch flame wars or anything (And if I worded this poorly I apologize). This is for intellectual/creative discussion of these things:

1) Female character aspects
2) Male character aspects
3) New aspects for both
4) Possible gender neutrality/post-humanism

[Liethell]

I can say that males are still expected to live up to much the same gender rules. There are steps being made against that though. Boy are typically made to feel as if any deviation from their gender role makes them lesser, weaker, and target for attack. They must initiate romantic relationships and they must be headstrong, courageous, the fighter of the group, defender of the weak, etc...

There are some nice books out there challenging that, but the focus is mainly on women. Nobody really praises a book for challenging the gender roles of a boy unless it involves women somehow.

[Lawtan]

I admit this is one reason I liked Dave Freer's Forlorn - the male character was a street urchin who resided in a rundown library. His inner self was described as "a little boy in a large knight's armor"

[Poggio]

It is my opinion that stereotypes are small truths reflected upon society’s behavior that then become generalizations that were recycled from the original stereotype. I am amused at how fast everyone is quick to point out the Disney princesses character flaws given that for a long time women were pretty much these princesses: Domestic homebodies that had the responsibilities of the house hold. That Disney is generally the first exposure to manners children have. And that with each new wave of artist/writers the characters generally get a makeover. Once upon a time the princesses were Cinderella, Snow white and Aura. In my age it was Belle, Jasmine, and Arielle. I am not including Mulan and Pocahontas. They are not actually princesses but historical figures. Now the children have Tiana, Sofia, Raphanzel and the Sisters from Frozen.


As far as books go… with the exception of YA fiction I have not read a novel series were the main female lead does not go from awesome to slutface. It may be that I like the wrong type of books. It just bothers me when Romance becomes the man focus of a story to where it debilitates any awesome aspects of the female lead. As if that is the reason she only exist negating all of her bad-assery I do tend to identify with tragic females that have lost something and use that as empowerment. Though book wise I cannot give a good example. Most of the items I have read as of late have been male narratives, with the exception of the last Tad Williams book I read.


As for males, again they are boiled down too and more then often the writing doesn’t delve into a males character it just goes for the males action. I really think that is just a product of today’s writing. The last book I read felt like a list of actions the characters were going through. As far as males go though I think the trend Is less so making them bravdo and more so either going for lackluster sex god (who is the prettiest damn thing on earth but just boring. Why females want some jackass snark I don’t even know. ) or trying to be anti heroic. I can say that men of my fathers age are seen less in novels now. I tend to read more about emotionally charged men then I care to and less of the strong stoic archetypes.

I do not think there is such a thing as gender neutrality. An individual can be in real life but in popular media, the dollar runs the world and if a character is not identifiable it usually doesn’t work. I have also never met a person truly gender neutral. Some social aspects of either gender tend to be bred into us from when we are little. And while the spectrum of gender has more shades now I think its still too hard to completely find a grey. People will make assumptions based on gender, characters will react to a situation differently based on their upbringing as that specified gender. It would be hard to undo 2000 years of social constructs, as well as more if you believe certain aspects of religion.

[Liethell]

For women, I've been finding a lot of books where the females don't seem slutty at all. I've even found some where women express their sexuality, but it has more to do with the plot or developing their character and less to do with fan service or a steamy love scene. I've come across one or two series where the female character is her own person, and I've found one really good one with a woman entering a male dominated environment and making her place there. That one was excellent and I'd be happy to share it if I was still able to.

I don't know if there will ever be gender neutral characters. I feel they won't exist unless the reader's idea of gender is abolished as well. We'll always apply gender and categories to the things we read. I have, however, had the privilege of reading a well developed transsexual character, though her plot focus isn't revealed until much later in the series. I'd be pleased to read more of those, but it's difficult to write a transsexual character without coming off as if you're just making a token character...

[Quiet Man Cometh]

Personally, I think the "in fiction" part really isn't necessary. Gender roles and stereotype exist in fiction because they exist in society, and the topic doesn't need to be limited to books. I think people will only get around stereotype once we stop complaining about people that match it.

There's a good short online called "Pink is not the problem" by MovieBob (never heard of him before this) that I think covers the crux of the issue with gender roles and how they are currently portrayed (he uses 300 and The Hunger Games as examples). In brief, females and males can supposedly act as they like, but masculine traits still have an elevated status over those traits labelled as feminine. This could be why the portrayal of male characters haven't appeared to change much. It is acceptable for women to act in a masculine fashion, but men acting feminine, or "too feminine" will often be given a hard time.

I think easiest way to get around gender stereotyping is to just ignore it. A character is a character, and how they act should be a product of personality, not biological sex. To talk about male/female aspects at all is to invite expectations of behavior. I've written several short stories where I simply don't bother to list the characters' sex at all. I've had different reactions each time. For one story, people simply assumed the narrator (all stories were in first person) was male or female, and were divided in opinion as to which. In another, people actually asked what sex the narrator was, probably because said character had a noted attraction to a man in the crowd and knowing the sex of the narrator would have altered how the story was read (ie, is the narrator homosexual?); and in the last, nothing related to gender ever came up.

There was an amusing short story I read in Women's Studies class about a hypothetical child that was raised with their sex being kept secret (not to the child, but to everyone else) with the point of the story being that, until relationships are involved, sex (or sexual identity) and accompanying gender stereotypes really don't matter.

While thinking about the topic, I found a good blog post some years ago about an author's encounter with stereotyping. I'll see if I can dig it up.



EDIT: Ha! Found it! That was fast.
Apparently I write like a girl

[Liethell]

I read that article through and I'll be honest, it was really relatable. Almost painfully so. I've had issues like this, where male characters 'aren't male enough'. I think you hold some very good points, and I'll have to think on these ideas for a while.

[Lawtan]

Poggio's comment on there not being a "true grey" gender made me think about perhaps a character could be interesting by carving their own gender, irrelevant to the "male-female-neither-both" realms...which could be one way in which they progressed and strove to maintain true to their self-creation.

Quiet, thank you for your suggestion to ignore gender when making characters - I may have to try that. Also, I'll have to look at the article when I have a moment. (Alias, tomorrow)

As to the "slutty/studly" people...yeah, I run into them...or the Romeos and Juliets.

I really did not mean to so much attack the Disney Princesses, as much as reference the most well-known target.

Thank you all for your thoughts on this.