[Red Calypso]

I didn't see this topic so I thought I'd start it. I'd love to discuss the series with other fans, anything from life in Haven to the nuts and bolts of her magic system and all points in between.

[Kasolyna]

I love the series with Talia, Arrows of the Queen :)

[Poggio]

I have not read them all yet. I usually can't seem to bring myself to read the third installment to the The Last Herald Mage Trilogy I kinda skipped a head and it makes me so freaking sad. ( I also hope that I am not spoiling anything by saying that)

I have also read the first two in the The Collegium Chronicles, Exile's Honor Exile's Valor Take a Thief ( XD and of course I read these backwards ) But I love the main character in those last three, especially the hearld that trains the thief. Her kid characters always amuse me, and love the fact that they never look the way they should on the cover.

I also read burning brightly, that has got to be my least favorite, so much freaking angst.

I haven't gotten my hands on any of the mage wars and well I dont like the way Larry Dixion writes so I havent read any of the other ones.

I did read the series ( both) that she wrote with James Malloy )
well needless to say I love this woman and the hearlds.

[Red Calypso]

The Arrows trilogy is still my favorite as well, and Talia is easily my favorite character.

I've read all the Valdemar books, I believe, but I have to confess I don't like the later ones as well as her earlier works.

There is one thing about her books that has come to irk me. She throws her teenage characters (who are already going through the roughest years of their lives) into situations that ADULTS would have a hard time with and then pretty much giving them no support system at all. I could give examples but I don't want to put out spoilers.

[Poggio]

I understand what you mean Red. I was waiting for a few of her characters to reach the breaking point. It is not so much the case in her newer books that the children go through impossible feats of survival, like the joust series, and to take a thief. Those kids kinda has it easy come paired to the one in the Herald Mage series.

[Red Calypso]

I don't know, what she put Mags through in the second book of his trilogy would have driven ME to suicide. And I thought the Companions were supposed to be helpful? Between Gala and Mags' Companion (forget the name), I've come to the conclusion that they're useless for support. If I were the Valdemar monarch, I'd have two to three mind healers assigned strictly to the Heralds, and at the FIRST sign of trouble counselling would be mandatory.

[Rainbowfox Ari]

I've only read the Last Herald Mage series [introduction to Yaoi for the win?] - and I have to say there are some points I might pick at. Both in continuity and character development.

But that would take paragraphs upon paragraphs to properly explain. XD

[momo the peachy]

I used to read her novels like there was no tomorrow. I absolutely ADORED the Bedlam's Bard novels :) I have some of them here, somewhere. I haven't read much in the past 8 years, though.

[Red Calypso]

Arri, feel free to write walls of text! I'd love to get a discussion going here.

Momo, it's been years since I reread any of her other series.

Just a point from the second book of Collegium. How hard would it have been for Mags to go to SOMEONE in authority and demand to be questioned under truth spell? Why didn't his Companion suggest that instead of "Oh hey, let's go racing around in the dark so one of us can get hurt?"

[Quiet Man Cometh]

I still have one on my e-reader. By the Sword I think it's called. Not sure. Haven't looked at it yet as I'm horribly backed up in my reading (working my way through two others right now as my main focus, but have about 5 others in the wings that I pick up now and then). I think my aunt read a few. I read some reviews and Arrows and Last Herald Mage were by far the popular ones, but they are damn hard to get a hold of. I've looked.

[Red Calypso]

By the Sword is a favorite of mine, for the simple reason that I like Tarma and Kethry even more than Talia.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

I nabbed it because it wasn't attached to any series. Didn't want to get myself into another -logy of some kind.

[Rainbowfox Ari]

Alright... If you really want my wall of text, here it is. XD Keep in mind that this is opinion though - mine. And if you DO disagree, I'm not going to fault you for it.

ALSO - I have spoilered the entire explanation for people who don't want the books explained. XD

*Clears throat*
I have been a longstanding fan of Mercedes Lackey's creativity, but I feel like the Last Herald Mage trilogy - PRIMARILY the last one [Magic's Price] - were simply, in effect, her effort to both break out of a comfortable mold for herself, AND to tap a market that was gaining popularity at the time [and still is - the Yaoi or same-gender male romance genre is booming. As a yaoi fangirl, I'm well aware of this].

HOWEVER, fitting into that mold is not as easy a task as it might seem, and there are a few super-major flaws I notice about the series. But then again, there are good points and bad points to any series, and it doesn't mean I don't enjoy them.

Point of Contention number one is the speed at which the main characters [both in the first and third books - not so much the second] fall in love with each other. I am sorry, Ms. Lackey, because I know you were going for the genre-base, as well as attempting to portray a male-and-male relationship based on mutual trust and honor... but boys, especially boys in their late teens and early twenties, DO NOT fall in love in the space of three weeks. Especially when one of them is unsure whether or not he is actually homosexual. While I do appreciate the tenderness between the two characters [in both cases, it's handled brilliantly] - I have a hard time believing that the work is solid enough to bring out a realistic relationship. EXCLUDING the fact that one of the pair is incurably insane, and had been from the start [although it was baseless for the most part - another contention] - even completely sane boys in that sort of environment, accepting or not, would not have been that open with a relationship of the kind you put them in, especially not that soon. Acceptance of your own sexuality is a tension that can last DECADES of a person's life, not merely weeks.

Granted, the time was likely cut-down to make it fit within the plot, and I get that... which brings me to another contention. How many plots all three novels have. Many of which are either discarded completely, or never fleshed out enough to draw attention. On second and third reads [because the books ARE good, despite flaws] I keep flipping back to where the characters that the story focuses on are interacting. Putting six or seven B-plots in a romance novel, especially when said romance is already a plot in and of itself, is like trying to shove that many books into one. And honestly, that makes the reader delve into things... BUT it also may make the reader upset or angry if you don't finish all those plots.

For example - there was an entire chapter dedicated to talking about Companions, but before most of the really big questions are answered for the reader, Van's off doing something else, and we follow him. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the infodump... but if you're going to start something, finish it.

Another flaw I notice is the sheer level which Van goes with his depression. I have had depression [and I still do, it's treated] and reading those chapters is like making a mockery of a serious issue. Especially with how the adults handle the situation. Yes, someone who has lost a lover / soulmate is going to feel terrible. They are going to want to end their lives to join their soulmates - but a surprisingly FEW number of people actually attempt that. Especially people who are - at least at the core - duty and honor-bound as Ms. Lackey assumes Van is. Violating every single rule you have made for a character in a single chapter or three is a HUGE flaw that just gets under my skin and makes it crawl. Especially in the last novel where practically ALL the strife and discord of the second is either completely ignored, or brushed off as 'It's in the past, I don't have to deal with it anymore'. This is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong. Even for a person who doesn't have access to modern-day, or advanced monitoring - psyche evaluations notwithstanding, having a mental breakdown of such a severity as to slit your wrists is a MASSIVE cry for help. And not just for the three or four more years you're in 'school'. A scenario like that is call for extreme monitoring that lasts the next ten, fifteen, or twenty YEARS - not just a few. And even taking that into account, that's for a highly-advanced society in which those things are common.

From what I read, the adults in the situation were WOEFULLY unprepared - half the reason they were scrambling to come up with the answers they did - and would NOT have let Van continue training... even with the help of the mystics in the mountains. Just because someone gets a handle on something like that, does not mean they are cured [partially OR completely] - and while I do appreciate that Van had 'soul scars' for the rest of his life from the incident, and trouble opening up to people... THEY STILL LET HIM BECOME A HERALD-MAGE. See, that, in my book, is a big-time nono. Someone with issues that deep and overarching - and believe me, I can see those issues from space here - would NOT have been allowed, no matter what the reason, to continue training in a field that is so very close to the militant force, and the king. What if they snapped suddenly in the middle of a mission? It's the same reason US military does not accept individuals that have attempted suicide in their lifetimes.

And that actually brings me around to my problems with the third book. Aside from ignoring most - if not ALL - of Van's emotional trauma, except for asides to himself or to others that just make him seem Emo, and not really reflective... The whole soul-entwining, 'I've been reborn to be with you and do it right this time' junk is a sell-out. Yes, I enjoy it. Yes, I feel that given the rest of the series, it is an appropriate thing. But I CANNOT condone it as good writing. Not only is it a vastly unoriginal idea for the author to have 'come up' with, it end the story in a 'Well now, that's nice' way. Happy endings are all well and good, but with the way Van's life was headed - and his past traumas - and AGAIN with the 'fall in love too quickly' issue... it seemed as though the author was trying to tie up loose ends without making an effort.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a good relationship-through-all-lives angle, but there were much better ways to handle it than piling that sappiness on top of Van's internal monologue... Like giving the character what they want, without them having to fight for it. Yes, I realize his life had been hard up to that point, and yes I realize that there had been struggle. But, in all honesty, it's just TOO neat, TOO pat. I felt a bit let-down that the third book wrapped things up in that way. Especially when the lesson in the second and first books was that the past is the past, and should not influence what you do in the future. See.... making a past lover reborn into your current one.... sort of defeats the purpose of that point, now doesn't it? But then again, that could have been the point - and I've always wondered to myself in secret if Ms. Lackey made these novels to MAKE FUN of the genre they fit into.

It seems a possibility - but the storyline is handled almost too seriously for its own good, if that were the case.

And that's my two cents on the matter.

[Red Calypso]

Quiet, even if you don't read any of the Valdemar/Herald books, I recommend picking up the Tarma/Kethry books. I love their stories.

*goes to read the wall of text, then I'll comment*

I agree with a majority of what you say. I think Misty wrote herself into a corner the minute she invented lifebonding. I mean, it takes all the romance out of it. "Oh hey, I don't know you but we're destined to be together. Let's get married." Uh, yeah...thanks but no thanks. I'd rather see a relationship like Elspeth's and Darkwind's. They didn't even LIKE each other at first.

I also think she has no grasp of mental illness. Look at Mags. He goes from majorly suicidal (not without reason) to perfectly normal without any kind of help, except for a snide "Stop being a coward" from Rolan. God, I wanted to kick Rolan a few hundred times for that. I also think she either hates teenagers or has no concept of how hormonally unstable they are.