[Kory]

That's fair.

Personally, I am from the "black" culture, and I have found that usually the only people upset by the "appropriation" have been white people.
Cultures mix oftentimes, some take things from other cultures due to colonization, some take on other cultures through immigration.
Appropriation is not what most people think it is...

I would never tell someone outside of my own culture(s) what they should and shouldn't be offended by...

We can end the conversation here though, if you want...

I have my views as a POC, and I guess they're very strong because I'd experienced a lot of racial issues in my life.
And I do understand if others cannot relate or have different views.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

edit;
For my Daily Awful:
I've been exercising every day for months and months now. I've been eating pretty clean for months and months longer... but STILL gain weight/at the very least, "maintain"...

It's definitely my medication. I've never been eating healthier than I am now, and I'm stronger than I've ever been. >:T
I'm going to have to ask my psychiatrist about metformin ;-;
I avoided it sooo long... But I might have to take it. My weight is becoming a really big problem

[Stabbsworth]

mm. i get you there. i'm white (european, if we're going to be specific).

the way i see appropriation is if you're invited to participate in something, you're good. if you're just taking it without any particular care to the original context, that's probably appropriation. or, at least, that's what i've been told.

i don't really get a say in this whatsoever because i benefit from white privilege.

i'm not sure why weight would be much of a problem tbh. afaik, muscle weighs a bit more than fat does, too.

[Espy]

Originally Posted by Ava

I am a 1995 baby

We’re not the same age, don’t worry.

[Espy]

Also I have a lot of thoughts about stuff in here (specifically race stuff bc we’ve been over the gender stuff recently) and nowhere near enough spoons today, so.

[mdom]

oh yeah back in the day there was no race issues, there must be why segregation was kept in the US until the 60s right? And there's like, not even anyone alive from that time today! Much less involved in politics.
Right, the world is not the US! Must be why my dad, during ww2, was punched in the face every day in school in Brazil, since Brazil was against Japan in that war and also he was called 'goat' because east asians usually can't grow facial hair(he did grow a mustache later in life, related? we'll never know). Or why my aunt called Misako had to change her name to Katia to avoid the bullying! Wow kids and their race specific issues today.
About apropriation, yes I do have issues with white people putting on a kimono and saying they're playing a 'geisha' or whatever(about westerns thinking geishas are prostitutes- a whole another book) when they make fun of my last name. You either accept my whole culture or you don't, bitch. You don't get to be a kpopper and then be like 'eww chinese eat dogs so gross'. Fuck that and us immigrants had to be quiet about it for too long and we won't be quiet about it no more.

Also don't @ me I'm mad and I don't want to get banned if you want more info google is free!!!

[Coda]

Originally Posted by Voidbarker

if you're not from a culture, you don't have any say on whether taking elements from said culture is appropriative or not, as far as i know.

I think you're confusing offensiveness with appropriation.

True cultural appropriation more or less CAN'T be done by a single person. One person is incapable of stealing an entire concept from a whole culture. It REQUIRES systematic abuse, such as with the jazz example.

On the other hand, offensiveness is something you can't judge from the outside. If you haven't grown up in the culture, it's hard to know if you're misrepresenting something in a way that's offensive -- for example, if you wear a meaningful religious symbol as cosmetic jewelry, that could really upset someone who believes in that religion. And on the flip side, you might think something looks like it might be offensive, but if you're not from that culture you don't really know if it actually is or not.

Originally Posted by Ava

That being said, I do believe in white privilege. It's obvious, when you look at TV and movies, you usually always see white people as the lead characters and if there is a black character, they are the "token" black person and they are usually biracial or very fair skinned with loose curly hair...

Privilege in general certainly exists. Some people just have an easier time getting started than others due to the circumstances of their upbringing.

But usually when we talk about privilege from a perspective of discrimination it's not talking about individual privilege. And racial privilege is a complicated thing.

In certain contexts, white privilege certainly is a thing. In some cities, being white makes you less likely to be seen as hostile in a police encounter. Some employers do still have racist biases, despite this being illegal; some don't even consciously realize they're doing it.

But a lot of things that get chalked up to white privilege are really just statistical probabilities. For example, being white is statistically correlated with being wealthy. But there are poor white people and rich black people, and it turns out that where you grew up is a lot better predictor for financial success than race. Of course, race can influence where you grew up, so it's not completely decoupled, but it's not strong enough to say that being white is automatically a privilege when it comes to money.

And this probabilistic, non-universal nature of things makes it hard to consider racial privilege as being a meaningful attribute when discussing individual people. As is so often the case when it comes to these kinds of issues, and just like with the idea of cultural appropriation, the popular misunderstanding of what these things mean leads to them being applied in discussions that aren't appropriate. It makes innocent, well-meaning people be disparaged just because they appear to have "privilege" that they don't actually have.

[Kory]

Originally Posted by mdom

oh yeah back in the day there was no race issues, there must be why segregation was kept in the US until the 60s right? And there's like, not even anyone alive from that time today! Much less involved in politics.
Right, the world is not the US! Must be why my dad, during ww2, was punched in the face every day in school in Brazil, since Brazil was against Japan in that war and also he was called 'goat' because east asians usually can't grow facial hair(he did grow a mustache later in life, related? we'll never know). Or why my aunt called Misako had to change her name to Katia to avoid the bullying! Wow kids and their race specific issues today.
About apropriation, yes I do have issues with white people putting on a kimono and saying they're playing a 'geisha' or whatever(about westerns thinking geishas are prostitutes- a whole another book) when they make fun of my last name. You either accept my whole culture or you don't, bitch. You don't get to be a kpopper and then be like 'eww chinese eat dogs so gross'. Fuck that and us immigrants had to be quiet about it for too long and we won't be quiet about it no more.

Also don't @ me I'm mad and I don't want to get banned if you want more info google is free!!!

Here is where I really wish we had a “like” button :(
I completely agree with all you said
And am sorry that they had those experiences

Race has always, and will always be an issue.
As a kid, I experienced loads of racism being a multiracial child in a pretty much, entirely white neighborhood..
And it wasn’t even from the kids, it was mostly from the adults...

My first grade teacher labeled me as a “bad kid”, even though that was far from the truth and she would try to separate me from the other kids. Like, “Okay class, so you know what a negro is? Well, Ava is one! She has dark skin and she’s black.” During Black History month, (mind you, we were in elementary school) they would always show us violent clips of black people getting sprayed with hoses and bitten by dogs
And everyone would turn and look at me, is if I were there when it happened!

That’s why I get so sensitive about my ethnic background sometimes...
I am a mixture of black and mostly German, and I experienced racism from both the blacks and the whites and it really bothers me when people assume racism isn’t a thing anymore?! Of course it is!
As long as there is humans, we’ll find some way to keep ourselves divided.

Edit;
I put it in spoilers because it’s not really a direct response to you and more of a general blanket.
What o really just wanted to say was that I agree.

[Kory]

Also,
I feel like I started this whole fiasco! :(
And for that, I apologize

I didn’t want to cause a fight or hurt anyone’s feelings
I just wanted to share my experiences with being biracial and dealing with mean kids and meanpeople in general

[Espy]

That you brought up this topic, is fine. Most of us have been here a while, and we generally get along, but we’re all from different backgrounds, and clearly, we can hold different views.

However...

Just because one person didn’t feel like racism was a terrible problem in their childhood, does not mean that’s an universal experience. Far from it. And I understand why people are pretty pissed off.

[Kory]

I honestly did not mean to start anything.

I just wanted to share my experience as a kid and I mentioned it as a hope that future generations of biracial kids don't have to experience what I did.

Granted, I always know racism will forever be an issue.

And again, I'm so sorry that I brought this up
I really did not mean to step on toes or turn anyone against anyone

[Espy]

Mate if there’s a thread on Tris to be angry in, it’s this one. And Void.

[Coda]

Ava, your perspective is refreshing and insightful, and I want you to feel very welcome here. :)



I extend my heartfelt apologies if I've seemed like I'm dismissing real problems. Certainly I understand that the amount of a problem it is depends on where you live, and I was raised in a good part of the country. And certainly there are quite appropriate things to be pissed off about. I'm not trying to say that racism isn't a problem.

All of the things I've been pointing out have been distractions from the problem. There are a lot of things that have serious research behind it that lay people misunderstand, and even though they mean well the pop-science interpretation of things doesn't help and sometimes even makes things worse.

The cultural appropriation thing is an example of what I mean. Cultural appropriation is a real problem, but well-meaning people misunderstand what it actually is and apply the label to things that it really doesn't apply to. Then people rightfully get defensive of being accused of something they're not doing, and it all descends into a shouting match that completely ignores the places where the real problems are happening, while making it seem more risky to mingle with people of other races lest you upset someone.

Maybe I'm just old, maybe I'm just idealistic, but I feel like if we as a society would combine our efforts and focus on inclusiveness and supporting those in need instead of fighting each other and jumping on the little things that we could make progress a lot faster.

[Mekatra]

I started my college algebra class today and already my brain is melting. I don't remember most of the basics of high school algebra and while they try to make it easy, it is not easy for me.

[Coda]

Hey, if you need help, feel free to start a thread. I like tutoring. :)

[Espy]

Didn’t we have a tutoring thread several years back?

[Mekatra]

I may seriously take you up on that, Coda. Math just isn't something that my brain plays nice with. I need everything explained to me like I am a five year old.