[Demonskid]

At this point this thread has become less about DE and more of a debate on if Home Remedies work or not.

The original purpose of the thread was to see if anyone here has used Diatomaceous Earth to help with their Digestive Track and to let people know my own personal findings with the stuff since I bought a 10lb bag to use on my cats.

So those who are interested read what's in the spoiler, from here on out, this thread is officially a Debate thread on Home Remedies.

I've been hearing good things about this Diatomaceous Earth stuff and I'm gonna give it a try. I ordered a 10lb bag of the stuff and I plan on using it in our morning fruit smoothies, and putting it into the cat food.

Of course I'll be getting the Food Grade stuff.

I've been looking at all sorts of websites, blogs, and youtube testimonies. Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth seems to help with a lot of problems inside the intestinal track. Some people say that it also helped with their blood pressure and cholesterol, even some state that their arthritis and join pain has lessened.

In pets it helps with getting rid of internal parasites if fed to them. If rubbed carefully on the fur, it helps get rid of external parasites. Add to the litterbox to help kill any parasites that come out of the cat and even helps with litterbox odor. It's also safe for dogs, rabbits and livestock.

Sprinkle on the floor to help with fleas, ants, bedbugs, and other creepy crawlies on ground. Put it in some water inside a squirt bottle and spray on the house plants and veggie garden to keep pests out.

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So since I myself am gonna start drinking it and feeding it to my mother and cats, I was wondering if anyone here has used this stuff. I'd like to hear some of your stories.

Or maybe even this thread will help others that haven't heard of it yet. If that's the case I am buying this particular brand: Diatomaceous Earth (Food Grade)

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I have digestive problems and high blood pressure. No matter what type of bowel movement I have, Regular, Diariah, Constipation, my stomach hurts soo bad. I've been using it as a warning system. Tummy starts to hurt, uh-oh I need to go spend 30min-2 hours in the bathroom. >->,

Mom has arthritis and join pain problems. Lets see if this will actually help her.

My cat Kuromi, her worms have come back, the Pumpkin Seed Oil helped for a bit, but it didn't kill off the eggs so now those eggs have hatched and the worms are back full force. I'ma put this in ALL the cat food so the boys have some protection against the squirmy bugs as well.

I would like to use this thread to also be like a health journal. Keep everyone up-to date with the progress I'm making with this stuff.

[Coda]

Yeah, um... don't waste your money. Diatomaceous earth is efficacious as a pest control product, but beyond that... you're just eating sand. Expensive, fancy sand.

It probably won't hurt you in supplement-sized quantities, but silica is almost completely biologically inert. There's a reason that a lot of implanted medical devices are encased in glass -- glass is made of silica, and silica does absolutely nothing in the body.

Now, if you were a bird, there might be a decent argument that it would help with your digestion, but most avian doctors recommend calcium (such as cuttlebone) over silica because the calcium is more biologically useful and is less likely to get impacted in your crop. But then again, you aren't a bird.

More information: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/dia...-no-thank-you/

[Demonskid]

What it does for the digestive system, is that it scrapes all the crap left over off the lining and helps it come out. Or something like that.

When it comes to home remedies, I never listen to what the doctors say really. I've found all the home remedies that worked for me, the docs always tell me it wouldn't ever work. (Aloe Vera for example, when I am able to get my hands on the gel to drink, it does help my digestive system a LOT. Unfortunately, my personal aloe plants aren't grown big enough to use for every day morning smoothies, and no where near me sells the gel, and to ship the gel to me is WAY to expensive. The only reason I could afford the DE, was because someone bought me an amazon gift card, we bought it mainly for the cats)

Lots of doctors will refuse to acknowledge that a lot of these home remedies do work because of the lack of 'official studies' done on them. But people do try these things and do post about them on Blogs and Vlogs.

1 teaspoon in my morning drink each day for 1 month to see how it works won't kill me. I just gotta make sure not to breath it in.

The article you posted keeps mentioning "Controlled Testing" and what not meaning it has to be done by scienties for it to be a true fact that it helps with, what ever people say it helps with. I think I'll take the word of someone who's put the stuff in their food for years over people who refuse to do these 'official' studies because they don't believe it helps. o3o

Then again, I bought this mostly for my cats, I'll only be having a tiny bit out of the 10lb bag we bought. I'll see for myself if it is beneficial to my health. If it doesn't do crap for me, then it will be a kitty only thing to help with worms and other parasites.

When I get it, I'll be sure to post updates on any changes I may see. Will it help my digestive track? Will my stomach hurt less when I have a bowel movement? we'll see. Tests are the only want to answer these questions. OvO


Edit:


The article you posted is basically someone who hasn't tried it, and they even states they don't know if it works or not. And that they pretty much only believe in Clinical Trials and Testing. Stuff that a lot of home remedies never get.

[Coda]

The problem is that there's a complete lack of evidence. The person hasn't tried it because there's no indication that it COULD work. There's no proof that it's done anything for anyone, ever.

There are some home remedies that actually do something. Aloe vera actually does do something, for example. (Maybe not everything its proponents claim it does, but it does do something.) There are others that are nothing more than placebo. The biggest risk with home remedies is that the lack of evidence also means that you don't know what could go WRONG, either. I mean, considering that diatomaceous earth KILLS insects by tearing into their bodies, do you REALLY want to shove that into your digestive tract? There's no proof that it's even SAFE.

The fact that "food grade diatomaceous earth" even EXISTS is a sign that someone out there is wanting to swindle people out of their money. Someone is charging MORE money for it because people believe that it works. There's an entire industry that thrives on exploiting people's belief that "natural" is somehow better for you than things that have been thoroughly studied and improved upon.

Another big risk of quack home remedies is that they make you believe that you're doing something for your health, so you stop trying to do stuff that ACTUALLY helps.

[Demonskid]

I can't afford stuff that actually helps xD And DE isn't expensive either. I'm not going for it because it's natural. I'm going for it because of the countless testimonies I found online.

Also people have to take in the point that everyone's body is different. What may work for some, won't work for others. So I'm taking that risk as well. (we all take that risk when given meds from that doctor. I use to be on seriquel when I was younger, the psychiatrist put me on it to make me sleep, it never harmed me. Mom was put on it a few years ago for a different reason, it put her in a state close to a heart attack. The pharmacist told her to stop taking it right then and there.)

xD Have you seen the prices of DE? Its cheaper than DeWormer for animals! I wouldn't be buying it if it was like 20$ for a 2LB bag and 40$ for a 10LB bag. That is expensive. but 20$ for a 10LB bag isn't that bad of a price. Especially considering that there are health foods out there that are WAY more expensive. Pretty much the price of 2 packs of hamburger thats 5LBs.


There IS evidence, the Vlogs and videos on youtube that have people recording themselves, mixing it into their water/juice/smoothies and drinking it. Some do weekly vlogs and some do bi-weekly.

Just because the testing isn't done in a 'controlled' area, doesn't mean there isn't evidence out there that it works for people. =p

[daikokunyo]

I have digestive and bowel problems too (IBS). I'll keep an eye on this thread, interested to see how it goes for you, it seems you're being careful enough I don't know if I'll have access to buy it for myself but the more informed about options the better!

[Gallagher]

like. okay. listen.

if this works for you and your fam, great.

but also, vids of people consuming a thing isn't evidence that it does anything.

really hope it helps for the pets, dk

[Demonskid]

It's more evidence than what the scientists have. ;p

A lot of vloggers and bloggers take this stuff seriously. And the comments from others who were inspired to try it, help as well. If it didn't work, the people inspired to try it wouldn't comment good stuff, they'd be flaming the vlogs and blogs instead.

[Coda]

No, the scientists have quite a bit more evidence. It's just negative evidence, not no evidence.

[Gallagher]

a lot of people like that go in expecting positive effects, so positive effects are what they see, regardless of if those effects actually exist. it's classic placebo. and the same stuff that gives wive's tales and superstitions such ground.

it's exactly like when you call yourself an unlucky person, every little bad thing that happens you'll blame on that.

i mean, again, if it works in your situation, then fantastic.

but also, there's a lady that sings the virtues of regular enemas and no matter how much support and comments she gets, scientific evidence says that all that is harmful in the long term, regardless of how great you may or may not feel short term.

be careful. cults get supporters, too. doesn't mean they're right.

[Demonskid]

Coda the article you posted stats that no tests have been done, if no tests have been done then where is that 'negative' evidence coming from? To have negatives, tests need to be done, and yet even the FDA has stated that they haven't tested it them selves.

The FDA says they need funding to do said research and until then take it at your own risk. The reason they aren't shutting it down is because of the tests that the groups who did short term research had good results (and because of those results the FDA has filed it as GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe)), but for it to get FDA approval as a health food, long term research needs to be done.

Gally - the only way to see if a home remedy works, is to try it yourself. Aloe Vera is a home remedy that has been shot down by 'science' for ages. It's recently been given light and they are finally started to do 'proper' studies on it. But before then, it was just another 'cult' following. But even now, most doctors still refuse to allow their patients to use it.

Marijuana could also be used as an example. It had a cult following for its health benefits but because official testing hadn't been done back then even doctors would tell you not to use it. It was a home remedy for pain and other things, very few cancer specialists would tell their patients to get weed to help them with the pain and nausea. Now, its becoming a legalized drug. But even now that its becoming legal, there are people who still refuse to believe that it helps and are fighting the legalization of it.

Its been used for thousands of years for many things but only now is the science proving what we already knew.

Home Remedies start somewhere. Those Cult followings, if they get big enough, the stuff they use will get tested.


Edit: FDA document for DE being GRAS


Dangers of taking DE internally
Benefits of DE
both of those are from the same website.

And the group that sells the kind I got, even states:

Testimonials on the use of diatomaceous earth are for reference only and are not approved by any type of governing board such as the FDA, USDA, or EPA. Uses outside of what said boards have approved are again, testimonials only and should also not to be considered or taken as professional advice by a physician, pharmacist, or any other health care provider to cure, treat, diagnose, or prevent any type of health condition. If you do have a serious health condition we recommend you see a qualified healthcare provider as soon as possible.

They aren't tricking people into thinking stuff. They're telling it straight.

[Gallagher]

just be careful is all i'm saying. that "dangers" article you linked mentioned possible respiratory irritation/diseases, but it doesn't tell you it means cancer type diseases. that's a whole new level that, even as unlikely as it is in this situation, is irresponsible to not mention.

be wary of information posted on the sites trying to sell to you. be wary of sites that specialize in pumping out articles. and definitely be wary of bloggers getting their information from such sites and then passing the information on to you in new, even more biased words.

marijuana is a poor example because the attacks on it were purely political at the start. the medical denial came about because of the agenda the government already had.

[Demonskid]

Even the site that sells it tells you not to inhale it. Tt's a very fine powder but its sharp. There are people who put this on their animals fur coat on youtube, the backlash they get for not wearing protective gear AND not protecting their animal's mouth and nose as well.

Some people seem to be fine with the slight irritation its caused them in small amounts, with me.. not taking that chance, I'm wearing my face mask o3o.. my asthma + that stuff in my lungs, no thanks. x'D

I'm gonna put it in my morning drinks and that is it. Some places says you can put it in soups, no thanks.. one place said to substitute some of the flour in some baking recipes.. that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.. >->,

Smoothies and Juice only for me. (Cat food and litterbox for kitties) Only in the morning as well. 1 Teaspoon inside the drink. That's all I'ma risk.

So far only that one seller site is the only one I trust, the other ones seem meh and it looks like they add stuff to theirs.

When it comes to home remedies, I do my research. =p


I just hope it helps my kitties more. x-x they're the ones that need it most.


MJ might not be the best one to use, but if you take out the politic part, people still refuse to believe that it helps with pain and other things. Even with all the scientific studies done. There will always be non-believers no matter what. Home Remedies will always be like that. There will be others that the government will want control of as well. In the end, they still started out as home remedies.

[Gallagher]

you can't take out the political part with pot at this point, though. we're not talking about "they made it illegal, so people made up why it must be bad" or some nonsense like that. we're talking about decades and decades of pushing the agenda for various reasons. after nearly 100 years of lies and misinformation, of parents telling their kids and those kids telling their kids, you can't separate the beliefs now from their political roots. every single argument against it has either been for economic gain, or to marginalize the hot topic minority of the time. recent posts i've seen circulating heavily implied that LGBT individuals are the ones being targeted now by pot hate. i won't go into details. it was disgusting, and hidden entirely behind medical bullet-points.

and for the non-believers, the same can be said of believers in home remedies. no matter what you tell some of them, no matter what evidence you have that contradicts them, they'll still believe what they want to believe. they find references that support them because they're specifically written by people with the same state of mind as them.

like, do what you're gonna do, dude. but be careful and try to be objective.

[Coda]

The only thing you can prove by trying a home remedy yourself is that it doesn't make it worse. If you take the home remedy and you get better, it MIGHT be because the home remedy worked... or it might be because you got better on your own... or it might be because you were paying attention to your issues and were doing other things that DID help... or you might not actually be getting better but you think you're getting better. And you get excited about the times when you do get better, so you tend to forget about the times it definitely didn't work.

A single experiment doesn't provide data. To make a proper test, you'd have to substitute some similar product and test THAT too -- but you'd have to make sure you don't know whether you're getting the real stuff or the similar product. If you don't know which it is, and you get better, and it WASN'T the real home remedy... then the home remedy wasn't responsible for you getting better.

And that's the problem. People DON'T do these kinds of controlled experiments. But MOST problems DO go away on their own. And people come to incorrect conclusions as a result.

My wife's grandfather died because he ate flaxseed as a home remedy for heart attacks.

Please, don't take the risk.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

I thought I saw something about this on my facebook but didn't really look. As far as I knew, Diatomaceous Earth is for pest control, and not something you want around smaller animals because it can affect their respiratory system (it would have to be a very small animal but still...). My understanding was that it plugged up pores and such in insects and what not, starving them of oxygen or something. However it actually works, I'm not sure it's something I would ever use in a diet.

I have a slew of health problems though, so I'm careful about anything I try, because I don't have a normally functioning system and I take pills that like to argue with me. No grapefruit (Grapefruit diet) or St. John's Wort (sometimes kidney remedy) or echinachea (cold remedies) to start.

As to the intestinal scrubbing thing, isn't that what seeds and fiber already do?

I'm not opposed to home remedies and there are a couple that I actually use but some of them can really be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing, and anecdotes aren't solid evidence.

On the doctors and home remedies thing, I've encountered this a few times, but doctors and nurses can't medically recommend anything that isn't an approved treatment. At least it's this way in Canada as far as I know. A doctor can be fine with certain remedies, but they can't officially prescribe them if there hasn't been testing and such done and the process approved. This might in part be because of government paid health care. Since the government is footing the bill for a lot of this, it wants to know that the prescribed treatments are effective. There are homeopaths, naturopaths, etc. around that you can see, but at your own dollar.