[Alexander Linden]

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. A series taking place a few years after Benjamin Sisko's wife dies. He and his son, Jake moved because Starfleet put him in charge of the Bajoran-owned Cardassian station: Deep Space Nine (previously Terok Nor).

Starting off in season one, I was a huge fan of the Cardassian tailor, Garak. The actor playing him wanted to think of the character as being 'omnisexual' (which is similar to pansexual), and because of his actions being thought of as 'flirty' toward the DS9 doctor, Julian Bashir, there was actually a HUGE fanbase for the pairing (I'll admit, I'm a fan of the pairing too).

The writers of the show did not like that. They didn't want gay characters in their show. Why? I'm not entirely sure, but they told the actor playing Garak to tone it down a bit. The character was supposed to be a one-time appearance character, but since people liked him they brought him back many times afterword.

My problem is this; I am now on to season 4, just after Warf joined them on DS9 (I watched this series in the past, and it was aster Warf joined at some point, however, I do not remember this episode), Jadzia Dax, a scientist and Trill host, is to work with someone that was her wife in a past life. As a Trill, Dax had both male and female hosts in past lives, and the scientist that came to DS9, was also a Trill with a new host.

Trill are apparently not supposed to have any association with past lives. They aren't supposed to be with the same lovers or anything because the idea is to gain new experiences from new hosts and lives. However, Dax still has feelings for this woman.

What is never brought up is that... both of them are women. The problem is the past association due to Trill culture. My problem is... Why was this so... natural in the show? They kiss and everything, but Garak, being just a little bit flirty with another male character is a BAD thing?

I realize that Trill can end up with hosts of either gender, but it's still like saying "Oh, Lesbians are okay! But gays are gross!" and that really bothers me...

(you can discuss the show if you'd like, but... let's keep this on the main quote from the paragraph above)

I also want to add: I don't CARE that Dax had a male host when they were married, the Dax host is currently female, which is what I am discussing. The best thing that can come out of this though is the message that "love transcends gender", which is a GOOD thing, but I still think they are showing a distaste to male x male romance in favor of female x female.

[Ashy]

yeah i dont get it either, i liked the garak/bashir pairing and hated the (2nd)Dax/Bashir pairing T_T

[Serra Britt]

I didn't watch a lot of DS9, but I tend to see this kind of bias all over the place. Girls kissing each other is "okay" but it's not for boys. Maybe in the case of DS9 they wanted to keep it so their primary fans would not be put off?

I don't support that though. Either same sex pairings is okay for both men and women, or one doesn't like either. Picking one because it's..."hotter" makes me upset, which I suspect is what was done in DS9.

[Alexander Linden]

In general, it's okay for girls to be masculine or tomboy-ish, but it's not okay for men to act feminine. If that is the 'in' thing, then saying that means if a girl is acting in the role of a man, it is okay for her to date women, but since it is not okay for a man to act feminine, it is certainly not okay for him to date me. I don't get this at all, but that seems to be just how it is... OTL

I saw at Spencer's once a girl's shirt that said something about being gay, not lesbian, but just gay (since it's a general thing), but there wasn't a men's shirt saying the same thing. It really upset me because I liked the t-shirt, but because it was in female sizes, it wouldn't fit me, so I couldn't get it.

[Serra Britt]

Alexander, I'd say what you are describing is what a lot of people believe. A woman acting masculine is "raising herself up", and a man acting feminine is "lowering himself" which is where the positive and negative connotations come in. I don't agree with this AT ALL. And personally I find a man who acts feminine VERY attractive. (Own personal bias)

As for the shirt, I'm so sorry you couldn't find one to fit you D: That sucks -.-

[CupcakeDolly]

I know nothing of the series, but like Serra said before, it's a bias that's seen everywhere. Lesbian relationships aren't often taken seriously - I've experienced it myself, having people tell me that having sex with, or even being IN LOVE WITH, a girl "doesn't count." Unless it affects someone directly (like a guy getting dumped by the girl of his dreams because she's run off with another woman or something equally dramatic and in-your-face) people tend to downplay the importance of female relationships. Personally, I believe it's subconscious sexism. No matter what one claims to believe regarding gender equality, the past and the examples set by society are too firmly ingrained in people's minds.

There may be another aspect to it, though, based completely on your description of the characters and the events. It sounds as if this omnisexual man is being more 'promiscuous' toward other men which, let's face it, tends to be how most gay men in media are portrayed. Promiscuity being one of the main arguments against homosexuality (and probably the fact that he's a man too, those dirty sexists!) the writers/producers/creators, what have you, may have found the behavior a little icky. On the other hand, you have the typical concept of love transcending time and lasting on - probably more of a well-received romantic notion.

[Caramel Flan]

I have dealt with things like that. Well, not the Star Trek. But, it just kind of upsets me. One of my guy friends was called a faggot because he was joking around and insulting his friend and he told him, "Regardless of how weird you are, I accept you as you are." I was really upset about it. Since when did telling someone that you accept them as they are deserves the title "faggot"? Made no sense to me.

An example would be this one guy in our band was openly homosexual, I accepted him, and my guy friend actually TALKED to him quite often and tried to befriend him. We didn't care if he was gay or straight a friend is a friend to us. We were riding the bus home from a game once and the two people behind us were talking about him. Not negatively, well it seemed. Because the one guy was telling someone that the poor kid moved cause people were bullying him because he was gay and whatnot and they agreed that it wasn't right to bully someone because of that. The same kid then started saying that he didn't get how a dude could like a dude. It's not that hard to feel attracted to someone of any gender to tell you the truth. Another thing, though, last year we had two lesbians in our band. I really knew one and ended up being friends with her and whatnot, the other one I just knew her name and everyone was really kind to him, but the gay guy I was talking about earlier was being made fun of behind his back. I did say something, but it didn't do much. Before they could be punished, the kid moved away.

And one more thing, at our first regular season football game we went to a school in Mississippi and saw two cross-dressed men dancing to us playing "Dynamite" and "All I Do Is Win". Everyone was laughing and whatnot and our band director was "in shock". I was just like, "Shoo, let them dudes dance. They are dancing cause they know we sound good." But, whatever. People are going to hate. I find it ironic how girls can see past homosexual or cross-dressed men, most of the time and hate on lesbians and guys can see past lesbians and crack gay jokes all the time. Can't we all be friends?

[DarkForbidden-Love]

I believe the reason most people are okay with femalexfemale pairings and not malexmale is because of how emotional girls are. If a girl hugs a girl or guy it could simply be friendship. But if a guy hugs a girl or guy they are showing something deeper.

It is general assumed that females are more emotional outwards and so a kiss could mean anything. But males are taught to repress emotions because it's cool so when they show emotions they are strong emotions.

So it's not that people are actually okay with lesbians it's that people assume a hug or a kiss between two females could mean nothing more than platonic friendship.

I'm not saying that this is wrong or right it is the general excepted idea.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

I've only ever watched maybe five episodes of Deep Space Nine, and that one I actually did see. I think I now the Cardassian guy you are talking about and I'm fond of him too, though I can't say I noticed any extra flirting habits but it's not something I'm likely to notice anyway.

It sucks but I believe that it's correct that lesbainism is generally accepted more than being gay. It might be a holdover from the days when a woman's job in life was to look pretty and get a husband. Female sexuality is therefore something of value and 'normal' in women. Being gay doesn't fit with the idea of the man as the head of the household, intellectual person in charge, etc. A man's job is *not* to look pretty to get a partner therefore visible male sexuality is improper, unless there are pretty females aroud.

I'm a feminist, and you've hit on what I think is a major problem with the current movement with this thread Alex, that being that traits considered "feminine" are still undervalued (which is what led to the whole notion of female inferiority in the first place). Feminie traits are seen as below masculine ones, but instead of these habits both being viewed as valuable, it's become "okay" for a woman to act in a masculine fashion but it's still not okay for a man to act feminine.

A girl can walk down the street in pants and no one bats an eye (something previously forbidden to women) but a man walking down the street in a skirt is likely to get slugged. Even a kilt is something of a joke though it tends to be more good natured.

I hate gender politics but it is really something that needs to be addressed in society.

[princeofrose]

Female X Female pairings are to "Draw more crowd" Usually men. Its a fad that is going on
HOWEVER
there have been gay guys in shows too. Usually animes-but for some reasons lesbians are more accepted in shows probably just because two ladies snogging is supposedly a turn on for men. *shrugs*
However I did notice that more gay characters are turning up in shows-men and woman alike so that makes me happy of course there is still prejudice out there.

Don't know anything about the tv show though so I can't comment on that.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

I wish it was a fad but I think it's beyond that. True, there are ore shows around that I've seen that show gay and lesbian couples but they are typically on specialty channels, not really mainstream TV.