[Coda]

My mind isn't THAT brutal. Consider the first Mega Man Zero game! And lots of turn-based strategy games have nonessential character death be permanent.

Happy to help!

[Ammutseba]

Mm, that's true. And there IS a penalty for letting your OVERs die. It affects your post-mission score and zenny reward. In fluff, you're paying the lifesaver fees to have them repaired from critical condition, so you're discouraged from just tossing raw recruits into dangerous areas and having a laugh. Fortunately, they will be fairly smart.

Ugh, MMZ. Those poor cyber elves! You'd have to be a monster to let them die! ;__; Who even thought that killing off cute little sprites was a good mechanic for survival?!

remiX has cyber elves, though. And some other stuff. Hey, if you're happy to help, maybe I could get you to provide input on the other project? :V Who knows, maybe I'll even make a post long enough to make 100 aurum. :P

[Coda]

I've never hit 100 aurum in a post. XD I think it might actually be impossible -- I wrote that code myself. ;) It uses a logarithmic curve so that getting more than about 40 aurum in a single post gets really hard, and I think you won't have hit 100 by the time it hits the post length cap (which, I think, is 64KB).

I wouldn't mind pitching my thoughts on another concept.

[Ammutseba]

Toho says there's an achievement for it.

Okay, then. Should I start a new thread, or just go from here?

[Coda]

It doesn't particularly matter. If you use this one, rename the thread title to something more general.

[Ammutseba]

I-I can do that? Okay. :V *goes to do that*

[Coda]

There IS an achievement for making a really big post, but it's 50 aurum, not 100. :P To hit 100 aurum you'd need something like half a million characters in a single post, and the post cap is 64KB.

[Ammutseba]

Oh, well I hit the 50 aurum achievement quite a while ago. Here in this thread, in fact. Sigh. How sad. Anyway! I'm going to talk about why the player won't need the OVERs' upgrade system to be effective. It's going to take me a while to type out, though... I'll just be here, doing that o_o

[Ammutseba]

Hoo... okay. The other thing I've been needing help with. And like, a constant stream of input. I know that ideas are cheap, but I need quite a few of them! I'd say it probably starts with the playable characters. I made many characters, and they're all designed to give players as many "ways to play" as I can. Of course, nothing is perfect.

X and Zero won't appear in this game as playable characters. In part, because they are ridiculously powerful by default. The guys you start with will have to work their way up to that kind of ability.

At the start of the game, you will choose your main character, your starting reserve character, and a navigator. Your main character doesn't change, and you can switch to/from your reserve character twice per mission. You can unlock more reserve characters as the game goes forward, by performing acts particular to each character. Things that impress them or appeal to them, you know. You can also switch your choice of navigator between missions. Each navigator helps you out by identifying things in-stage and giving you directions, but also has their own unique specialty.


Combat Rank and Stats
The best gauge for how good a playable starts out is their combat rank. You and allies are gauged for combat ability on a scale that looks like this: E-D-C-B-A-S-SA-G-GA-P-PA-UH. We're generally only concerned with the first part of that scale, though-- everything up to SA, because that is pretty flippin' darn good.

In a game like this, characters aren't much good without relevant statistical info, so why don't I cover the basic stat details? The important things are Life, Defense, Shielding, Weapon type, Speed, EAS, Circuits, Tolerance and Preferred Upgrades.

Life is measured in a number of visible cells. Our "average" character from before starts with 16 life cells. This is how much damage he can take before his LIFE core is breached and he explodes. Even though this is the number of cells we see, each cell is worth 2 points of damage, it's just that it's unusual for weapons to be less effective than this, and it is easier to look at a life bar with this many cells on it to start.

Defense, sometimes called DR or Damage Resistance, is a number measured in X out of 16. When a character suffers damage, they resist this much of the damage received, although Defense can never take more than 16 damage away from a hit.

So, if your hero is hit for 24 damage, even if you (somehow O_o) have 16/16 defense, you'll still lose 4 cells of life.

Shielding defines how long a character remains invulnerable after they're hit by an attack. You have it or you don't, but if you have it, it can be improved in a couple of ways. With shielding, your character will be immune to unhittable for 3 seconds. Without shielding, your character will be unhittable for 1 second.

Weapon type is which kind of weapon the character wields. The options are Buster, Beam or Kinetic. Buster and Beam weapons are energy-typed. They jacket concentrated plasma in a magnetic envelope and then smack things with it.

Buster weapons shoot projectiles. They can often be charged to increase the size, speed or damage of the projectile they fire, and most must obey a cooldown safety feature, which generally limits you to a set number of projectiles on-screen. Buster weapons can (and often are) equipped with a VWES, or Variable Weapon Emulation System, which has a number of slots associated with it. Plasma envelope is the basic form of a buster weapon, and most stock buster weapons have 2 VWES slots, meaning that the weapons of up to 2 different bosses can be equipped to them. When a VWES entity is assigned to a buster, the result usually takes the form of a projectile weapon.

Beam weapons are like glowy sticks you hit things with. Beam weapons can be further separated into low-phase and high-phase. Lo-phase beam weapons can be maintained for long periods of time and don't do a whole bunch of damage (such as Colonel's sword), and hi-phase beam weapons use a ton of juice and pack a wallop, but because they run so hot and use so much energy, they can only be "on" for short periods of time, like just a couple swings (such as Zero's sword). Beam weapons do not have VWES capabilities, but they can be modified to include boss spoils in their discharges, which are usually associated with techniques.

Kinetic weapons are like swords and fists and bullets. They hurt things because they convey kinetic force and I'm sure I don't need to explain much more here.

Since they're made primarily of energy, buster and beam weapons can be canceled, mitigated, or screwed with by various effects. Because they're not made primarily of energy, kinetic weapons can be screwed with by far fewer effects.

Speed is how fast your character moves. 16 is the "standard" movement rate, and it can be seen in X2 and X3, when you move X without dashing.

EAS is short for Emergency Acceleration System, and it refers to what's usually called a "dash." A basic dash system moves a character a moderate distance at 8 points better than their base speed, and must cool down for 2 seconds after it is used to be used again.

Circuits refers to the maximum number of fortinite circuits a character can have equipped at the same time. These circuits can be purchased in a shop, and sometimes-- very rarely-- dropped by enemies. Fortinite circuits mostly provide simple, numeric bonuses to the hunter's abilities. Things like speed, defense, power or life bonuses, or resistances to various status effects, but there are a few unique effects, as well.

Tolerance refers to the Erosion load of fortinite circuits that a character can resist, for each circuit slot they have. Each circuit has an Erosion score. If the fortinite circuits that a character has equipped that exceeds the character's Tolerance score, the difference is subtracted from their maximum number of life cells. You can't equip circuits that would reduce your maximum life cells to 0 or fewer.

Preferred Upgrades refer to the two different categories of upgrade that the character is best with. Purchasing an upgrade of one of these types is cheaper for this character, and sometimes equipping an upgrade of this type results in getting a slightly better version of that upgrade, for this character. More on Upgrades later, because they're important and extensive.

Alright, next thing.

Playable Characters
Anlace. A-rank melee specialist. She has an Enhance Form that annuls her defense and shielding and costs life to maintain, but increases her Power and Speed.
24 life, 2/16 defense, yes shielding, has a beam sword with a 5-hit combo attack, and can charge her sword up to 1 level (a very unusual quality). 18 speed, improved EAS with better than average distance and air boost, 3 circuit slots with 6 tolerance each. Prefers Melee and Systems upgrades.

Onyx. A-rank sniping specialist. He is assisted by an orbital laser satellite that can snipe or blast things for you.
20 life, 0/16 defense, no shielding, has a buster rifle that can charge up to 2 levels; each successive level of charge is smaller than the last and has better penetration. 2 damage at level 0, 3@1, 4@2. 4 VWES slots with 16 weapon energy each, 16 speed, basic EAS, 1 circuit slot with 6 tolerance. Prefers Buster and Systems upgrades.

Dynasty. B-rank infiltration specialist. He can melt into a liquid form, move freely and change back again at will.
16 life, 2/16 defense, yes shielding, has a buster weapon that can charge up to 1 level and suffers from a long charge time. 2 damage at level 0, 3@1. 2 VWES slots with 12 weapon energy each. 14 speed, no EAS, 1 circuit slot with 10 tolerance. Prefers Mobility and Modular upgrades.

Luster. B-rank generalist with a folk shinobi theme. He has a short-lived stealth mode that slips past enemy notice.
14 life, 0/16 defense, yes shielding, has a small low-phase beam sword with a 3-hit combo and can throw shuriken. 20 speed, advanced EAS with fast recharge, excellent speed, average distance, air boost and variable air dash. 2 circuit slots with 4 tolerance each. Prefers Melee and Mobility upgrades.

Clover. C-rank artillery specialist. He has a device that can rain large shots at enemies for a short time, but takes a while to recharge.
12 life, 0/16 defense, yes shielding, has a buster weapon that can charge up to 3 levels and takes a long time to charge. 2 damage and levels 0 and 1, 4@2, 6@3, and each successive level of charge hits a much larger area. 2 VWES slots with 24 weapon energy each. Has a kinetic rod weapon with a 2-hit combo. For whacking things. 12 speed, basic EAS. 2 circuit slots with 2 tolerance each. Prefers Melee and Modular upgrades.

Meridian. C-rank close combat specialist. She has a limited but powerful buster weapon that can instantly charge energy projectiles that hit her and fire them back, but cannot otherwise fire. She can also get closer to enemies before taking contact damage.
28 life, 4/16 defense, no shielding, 0 VWES slots. Has an enhanced-gravity knuckle weapon with a 3-hit combo. 14 speed, modified EAS with a slow recharge, excellent speed and average distance, and it can be used to break grabs and grapples and deal damage to the attacker. 2 circuit slots with 8 tolerance each. Prefers Systems and Mobility upgrades.

Scion. C-rank combat support specialist. He can raise an immobile energy barricade that can absorb a large amount of damage before collapsing, giving him a safe place to fire from with little fear of reprisal.
18 life, 0/16 defense, no shielding, has a buster weapon with an extremely high refire rate, 1 slaved VWES slot with unlimited weapon energy. 16 speed, basic EAS, and can equip 1 circuit with 10 tolerance. Prefers Buster and Modular upgrades.

Hearts. D-rank cyberspace researcher. She can equip one more cyber elf (fusion or satellite) than other characters can.
24 life, 4/16 defense, yes shielding, has a buster weapon that can charge up to 2 levels and has 2 VWES slots with 16 energy for special weapons each. Her buster cannot be improved, and it deals 1 damage at level 0, and 2@level1. At level 2, it fires a cyber fairy that rewrites the programming of enemies to pacify or charm them; more powerful enemies require more hits. 14 speed, no EAS, 3 circuit slots with 2 tolerance each. Prefers Systems and Modular upgrades.

Nitrous. B-rank scouting specialist. Goes fast. 12 life, 0/16 defense, yes shielding, has a buster weapon that does not charge and has 2 VWES slots with 12 energy for special weapons each. His buster does 2 damage. He can shift into a faster mode, and run into enemies for ramming damage. 16 or 24 speed, advanced EAS with excellent stats, 2 circuit slots with 4 tolerance each. He exists for speed runs.

[Coda]

Have you considered dropping the Mega Man trappings and reskinning it? It would allow you to consider marketing the final product if it works out well.

I think you goofed on your defense math; my reading says that would be 8 points, not 4. Is there a minimum damage? That is, will you always take at least 1 point of damage no matter how weak the hit?

Why put a cooldown on dash? X can chain-dash; this has never seemed unbalanced to me because you can't attack... or... anything else besides jump, really... while you're dashing, and you have to touch the ground afterward before you can dash again.

[Ammutseba]

I have considered it. I'm still considering it. But, it's mostly just a thing I want to make because Capcom stopped making Megaman and I, like other fans, am starved for it. But hey, I might reskin it later. :|

Nope, no goof. Each life cell is worth 2 damage. For visual reasons. No, there's not a minimum damage, but the damage mitigation from defense always comes off the latter end of the damage you take, rather than the former. To mitigate damage from the former end, you need armor, which is a different stat that doesn't get used very often. As it turns out, there are a few different ways that damage mitigation gets handled, and all to create different effects or feels.

Dash was actually more powerful than it seemed, in the X and Zero games. Compare no-dashing to allowing dash when taking on bosses. In MMX, every boss's true weakness was dash, and not whatever weapon cycle item hit them harder. I would definitely attribute the ability to chain-dash to the many reasons that X and Zero are ridiculously strong.

[Coda]

I'm quite aware. I'm one of those fans starved for a good Mega Man game. My name is a musical term for a reason. :P

Oh right, you did say 4 cells. You switched units on me. ;)

MMX1's bosses being balanced around not being able to dash doesn't mean that dash is overpowered. It means that dash was considered a powerup in MMX1. In later games, the bosses were balanced around the expectation that you WOULD be dashing in combat, so it stands to reason that intentionally handicapping yourself would make the fights harder. To really make a judgment call on it, you'd have to patch one of the games to make everything else identical but add a cooldown to the dash function and then see how it handles. I doubt it'd make the game substantially harder (though it might make getting to some hidden items harder) but it'd make covering ground during the stages more tedious.

[Ammutseba]

Hmm. This knowledge makes me feel like I should change the name of one of the initial stage bosses. He's also named Coda, for the same reason. Well, that and he pairs with Dr. Aubade, whom he killed.

Yes, I am a terrible man.

You're right. However, you can purchase or acquire upgrades that ameliorate or eliminate the recharge time, meaning that you can get chain-dashing, so if it's really something that I have to eliminate, you'd be surprised how much will need to be rebuilt. @_@ Not that now would be a bad time to learn of it, but I suppose I'll start hacking X3 to find out...

[Coda]

I suspect what you'll find is that it won't have a huge amount of effect in boss battles unless the cooldown is way too long. Dashing in combat is done tactically, so having some lag after a dash where you can't dash again might not even be noticed. It's OUT of combat that chain-dashing is most desired, because stages are all about covering ground to get to the boss and everything in between is just obstacles.

Not that it would actually hurt the game all that much, so if it's that much work then don't worry about it (speedrunners can stack dash cooldown reduction if that's what they want). Though 2000ms feels a bit steep (unless that's counting from the moment you press the dash button and not from the end of the dash animation, then it might be okay).

EDIT: I should point out that the musical themed names is mostly for the classic series. It's not nearly so prominent in the X series (the American names of the MMX5 bosses notwithstanding; those weren't their original names) so it feels a little out of place.

EDIT 2: It might be an interesting mechanic to have a single dash NOT consume all of your EAS energy, so you could dash twice in quick succession but then have to wait for EAS to recharge before you can dash again, and longer before you can double-dash again. That would allow for things like wall-bouncing or getting all the way across the boss room in a hurry while not allowing you to always be dashing.

[Ammutseba]

Yeah, I know about musically themed names. I just happen to like the idea enough to keep doing it. :) Not all the characters, just some of them.

We'll have to try it out in alpha and see whether 2000ms is really that awful. It can always be adjusted.

You're talking about stocking dash charges the same way the stock shot worked in X4, but without having to manually charge it. It's a good idea, and it has good room for expansion. As long as sustained effects eat through stocked charges automatically and don't allow recharging for as long as they're active, I don't see any reason to not do this.

[Ammutseba]

So, I just saved some time by self-imposing a 2-second limit between dashes on a couple levels in X, X2 and X3. Obviously, I'm not as specific as a computer, but I can tell you what I learned.

In X, not having dash for 2 seconds is not a big deal. Only rarely does it put me in a tough spot. In X2, it's a bit more frustrating. In X3, it's a much bigger deal, and it makes every boss a pain in the patoot. I'm not skilled enough to go no-damage against Bit without double-dashing.