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Originally Posted by Raizu

Yes, more times then not I've seen people with degrees get jobs over people with years of work experience. It's one of the problems right now in the work force. I mean back in 08/09 when older baby boomers were being laid off they couldn't get another job because even though they have 10 to 20+ years of experience there were younger people with masters getting those jobs instead. I've had employers tell me that they would rather pick someone with a degree over work experience because, and I'm not making this up, "people with degrees show a higher work ethic and better critical thinking and problem solving skills." Not only that, but I've heard people say that they prefer new blood as opposed to older people who are going to keep doing things the same way. The job market boils down to what new things you'll bring to a developing or already well established company because that translates to more money potentially. Companies want to see growth not stagnation.

There are several different factors in play there. That's not all boiling down to otherwise-equivalent degree-vs-non-degree comparisons.

Most significantly, you're talking about 2008-2009. That was the heart of the recession. Employment was crap all around there. And when money is tight, employers prefer younger hires to more experienced ones because they can get away with paying them less. If the older people actually expressed interest in a low-paying job, they'd probably GET it (which is why you see so many of them working at places like Wal-Mart, where you know your salary before you even talk to the hiring manager, so that issue is taken out of play), but they're probably applying for jobs that would sustain the standard of living they had become accustomed to.

The baloney about better work ethic is in part a rationalization and in part because younger people are perceived to have more enthusiasm because they're not old and tired and jaded, because younger people are more willing to put up with BS from employers because they don't know any better. In actual fact, that discrimination is ageism and it's illegal, but it's nearly impossible to actually litigate about it because basically nobody actually thinks they're ageist (or sexist or racist) -- they just follow their gut reactions and then come up with explanations for why they feel that way.

I really do have to disagree with the first job statement though. You can have a first job and be in college. It's down right the worst thing ever because you're working 30+ hours/week and going to school 20+ hours/week and doing homework and projects for another 20+ hours/week but you're making money and going to school. If tuition is something that is a road block there are multiple ways to go about getting money for that. Many people offer grants and then there are the federal routes which again are the worst thing ever but they work. Really though I have seen people giving out grants because their kids would have inherited the money died and the parents just want to give it away.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't advising that you try to hold your first job WHILE you were in school. I agree that's a very bad idea.

What I'm saying is to compare the following two people:
* 23-year-old with a bachelor's degree in English Literature
* 23-year-old with a 6-month certification and 3.5 years of on-the-job experience

One of them will have a minimum of $40,000 of student loan debt and a degree. The other will have earned over $60,000 in the same period and a resume. Even if the degree WERE a competitive advantage, that's a $100,000 difference to make up. How many years will that take?

I have found the myth of entry level to be a joke these days. Barely anyone promotes from within anymore to begin with. I don't even remember the last time I've heard or seen myself someone being promoted from withing without a degree or some kind of exponential achievement.

Who said anything about promoting from within? It's about building up your resume to apply to a better job. What better way to prove that you're worth your salt to a prospective employer than to show that you've been there and done that?

I wasn't saying that cosmetology wasn't a trade school I was just saying it's more times then not the one trade school that ends up paying out in the end :/

Tech industry trade schools do too. Manufacturing trade schools do too, but manufacturing jobs are dwindling in the face of automation and outsourcing.