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Toki 11-20-2012 08:03 PM

Let's talk Paranormal
 
since that is my favourite thing in the world yes

possible discussion topics:
  • do you believe in ghosts? why or why not?
  • tell us about a paranormal experience you've had
  • astral projection, most excellent experience or frickin terrifying would not recommend?
  • ouija boards are not rad in the slightest, agree or disagree
  • spirit guides, premonition dreams, etc.

so yeah i'll start i guess

i've been practicing with astral projection for like a year now and it's getting pretty frustrating because i haven't been able to do it at all and it's totally wrecking my confidence

i've never been able to see ghosts but i get weird feelings all the time and ive decided to take notice more when i get a weird feeling because it usually means something will happen? like if i get the feeling we're going to have a pop quiz in ethics class, it usually happens maybe i just have a spidey-sense for quizzes but it's getting pretty weird because it's been right more times than i can call a coincidence

i dunno that's the most paranormal thing that's ever really happened to me except for that one time when i was actually not trying to astral project but then something grabbed my foot and pulled me out that was totes ridic and also p scary and even then i dont know if it really happened or what

even so i believe in ghosts and all that not just because it's completely rad but also because i dunno i just do???

so tell me about your paranormal feels, trisphee!

Reyoki 11-20-2012 08:16 PM

Well, Toki, you know I do my weekly Tarot card readings, and they're usually pretty spot-on.

There have been times where I'll be muttering to myself while playing a game, and then suddenly start having a conversation with someone else in the room. Only, once I realize that I'm the only one who's awake at three in the morning, I'll look around my room and there's nobody there but me. That's the point at which I decide to go to sleep because I'm imagining things. Except for the fact that it's happened a number of times since I was in middle school, so I'm pretty sure it's not just my mind playing tricks on me from exhaustion.

I think it may be the ghost of my uncle who died when I was in 7th grade. My grandma keeps his urn in her curio cabinet in the living room.

Amoena 11-20-2012 08:20 PM

Ah!

At my house there's at least one ghost v.v I've never had sleep paralysis before BUT one night I woke up and there was a black mass standing in the doorway. I tried to talk and when I realized that not only my body but things like my vocal chords and stuff were completely paralyzed I tried to scream.. and well neither worked. I didn't make a sound but it ended up floating and disappearing up into the attic.

The attic door is almost "held" shut. I like to believe that it's just the wood in the door and stuff contracting and expanding over the years (it IS an older house after all) but when we say what we're going to do up there (just grab the ornaments/put them away, find something up there) the door pops open. Coincidence? It totally could be.

My mother has been visited many times, the stove gets turned on by itself after she sees the shadow walk in front of it. She's taking a bath and there it is standing in the doorway checkin on her. She sees it walk back and forth in front of her door.

It's all very creepy and scary, but totally harmless. We've never been harmed or "threatened". And the thing turning on the stove -- well, even the landlord thinks it's an older woman up there, so we think she wanted to cook something xD! She acted up as soon as someone had hurt themselves too.


---

I dream in color, and I can lucid dream and the dreams are more vivid and I can control them more if I slow my brain down. I'm registered as a genius /blush so my brain works super fast, and slowing it down with - nyquil or another type of sleep aid (simply not drinking caffeine does the trick as well) lets me concentrate more on what's going on.

Once, I overdosed on nyquil (big whoop, didn't do anything but make my liver mad at me for a day) and I had a dream where I died, had a vision, and in my dream I cried out that it felt the same (as being alive). I woke up, and I felt so renewed and fresh and not at all like I had just overdosed. The stomach aches and physical issues came a little later, but I was totally over what I was so upset about before!

The weirder stuff came after that, when ever I dreamed after that (and I carry it with me in my dreams even now, as that was about two years ago) the dreams were in order. Like, the dream I had after the one I died in had us (there were a few of us in a group that all died, don't know the circumstances though) corralled in and looking for something. The one after that had us using that thing to create a portal that took us somewhere else. I can't really get into the specifics because It's very personal, but that continued until I was actually taken in one of my dreams by someone (kidnapped).

---

Ouija boards are NOT GOOD. Especially if you're a novice at that sort of thing. You end up letting evil spirits (or whatever) in, even if you're trying to contact good ones. <-- All learnt from Ghost Hunters, thanks TAPS :)

---

Oh, and to answer you Toki, I would debunk the cases of just "feeling weird". It could be that there's some EMF (electromagnetic fields) running around where you are, or they spike at certain times. That's how my old house is and it's used as a sort of tuning fork. My family has an excellent ability for intuition, so I sometimes feel like a sort of medium at times, though I really don't want to be haha xD;; it's scary to me.

Toki 11-20-2012 08:21 PM

see ive never really been haunted or talked to ghosts or even been able to see them

but lately ive had this thing where i keep seeing people and animals out of the corner of my eye but when i go to look at them theyre not there

honestly since i have an overactive imagination it's p hard to tell if it's just that or if im starting to develop some sort of clairvoyance

who know

and yeah sleep paralysis is most non-excellent and sucks a lot, ive been through that

also lucid dreams are where i get most of my story ideas and theyre loads of fun but i almost never get them anymore

ive kinda deduced that i cant astral project because my mind is constantly on overdrive and i cant shut it up long enough to concentrate on the task at hand u_u though once i was able to do it and didnt realize it and i havent been able to do it since

Amoena 11-20-2012 08:23 PM

Seeing things out of the corner of your eye could be something, or it could just as easily be nothing. You want to see them full on. Maybe, when that happens, talk out loud? Like, say "Who's there? May I see you please?"

Sometimes talking to the spirits helps. With mine, I can just ask them to go away please, because they are scaring me. And they do.

Toki 11-20-2012 08:33 PM

i usually dismiss it as my imagination or a trick of the light because they're gone just as quickly as they appear

my boyfriend has suggested that i cant astral project because my house is so creepy in the dark and i dont feel safe enough to do it "/ which would make sense because yes my house is extremely creepy at night for no discernible reason and often times i dont feel safe and/or that someone else is watching me

Amoena 11-20-2012 08:45 PM

Yeah, I'm no professional but that sounds like a fear cage (v.v lots of book readin' and tv watchin').
If you feel *that* uncomfy just try asking "them" to stop. You'll feel a little silly probably but it might help.

Toki 11-20-2012 08:54 PM

in my house, we've tried asking them to leave if there is anything, but that creepy feeling is still there all the time so maybe i'll smudge some sage or something and see if that helps

when it comes to the random sightings, it's not all that bothersome or unsettling, just odd since it's never happened before

what is your opinion on tarot cards? i know reyo and i both use them but i know a lot of people try to say theyre an elaborate coincidence

Amoena 11-20-2012 09:09 PM

Sage.. i don't.. are you cooking?

---

I had a book and set of tarot cards, but I don't know how to use them (so I don't). There's a psychic community near my house (well like 40 miles away) and when I visited it I felt like there was a bunch of people/things/whatevers trying to get inside my head. It was a very headache-filled and uncomfortable day for me. Anyways, a lot of them offered tarot services and I politely declined.

As far as them being bunk, "I don't know" I suppose would be my answer xD I believe that if you know what you're doing with them it could work out better. But, like the bible, it's all up for interpretation.

Toki 11-20-2012 09:23 PM

no smudging sage is a thing that you do to expel negative energies from an area and promote positive ones "/ like you can buy bundles of dried sage and everything

wow that sounds bad

ive been to st augustine a couple of times and thats supposed to be one of the most haunted cities in america but i didnt see or hear or feel a single thing when i was there u_u i guess i just dont have the gift

Amoena 11-20-2012 09:49 PM

Ahhh they found some crazy stuff in the st. augustine light house :D

Toki 11-20-2012 10:21 PM

yeah i know

ive been there, it's nbd "/ no one saw anything or even felt anything

the old jail was different though-- i saw someone moving in one of the cells from outside but they dismissed it as a mannequin, and it was gone by the time we went inside u_u

Dawn 11-20-2012 10:37 PM

One of my favorite topics to sit and discuss cause really.. death and ghosts and other things really tend to interest me..

I do remember when I was younger.. I lived on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and my parents, well.. they really wanted to freak me out one night. We have a legend called Big Liz.. it's like a 20 min drive away from where I lived so for a laugh, they drove to the place and did what was told in the legend to call her up, ending up sitting on an old wooden bridge in a car.. well, they end up being the ones that got bored so decided to leave, and while we driving off, I saw something white in the marshlands coming toward the car.. and my parents never believed me..

Also another freaky thing that happened.. I will always swear my house in the States is haunted.. but my room has always.. felt queer.. my first cat was always scared to go in there at night but this involved an item I owned.. I usually went to New Jersey for Summer vacations and one year, I brought back this cute little plush bean bag dog, yellow and cute as a button. I kept this plush on my dresser.. than one day, it vanished.. we searched every where for it and still, even now, the mystery of where this toy went to has not been solved but I made a comment to my best friend regarding it, she was like, a ghost took it.. I was like, why would a ghost want a stuffed animal? She was like, was there anything red near it.. I was like, I had my red lava thing near it but that's still there.. and she was like, ghosts don't like red.. like okay... not sleeping in that room again..

Toki 11-20-2012 10:46 PM

ive never heard that ghosts don't like red; makes me wonder where that lore came from

Dawn 11-20-2012 11:00 PM

I honestly don't know.. it was the plush got took cause the red object was near it or maybe it was cause there was nothing red near it.. it's the only item that has vanished without ever showing up again so I can't test that theory..

and pretty much, the last year I spent at the house, I slept on the couch.. that was how freaked out that room left me, the other two rooms I had no issues sleeping in..

Toki 11-20-2012 11:22 PM

wow ok

i might do some research on that

if you still live there, you might want to try smudging sage in that room to clear the negative energy and promote positive and balanced energy

Pathosis 11-20-2012 11:45 PM

My mom's best friend experienced some freaky shit.
Her daughter was dating another family friend of ours for almost 7 years.
They had their wedding planned a month before he died in a freak motorcycle accident while with my cousin Adam.
My cousin was fine, but his best friend (Jeremy, the boyfriend) flew off his bike and hit a telephone pole and was D.O.A.
Shortly after, my mom's best friend started noticing that her ceramic cherub/angels were moving every night.
She'd fix them, but they'd always move.
I have no idea if it was Jeremy or what, but she liked to think it was Jeremy getting through to them.
>>;;

Also, when I was a kid, apparently I walked out of my room and started talking about things that happened to my Grandpa when he was in WW2.
She told me she never talked to me about it before then, so she had no idea how I knew that stuff.
Third eye, maybe, who knows.

It'd be a bit contradicting if I said I believe in spirits or ghosts, since I don't believe in heaven, hell or souls.
Or god, for that matter.
So I'll just sit back and maybe if I see a ghost myself, I'll take into consideration the possibility of souls.
><;;

Toki 11-20-2012 11:55 PM

that's pretty interesting O:

paranormal things can happen regardless of what you believe or don't believe though so i wouldnt dismiss the possibility or forsake what you believe in order to rationalize your experiences, i'd just say keep an open mind

maybe, especially being so young, you might have been channeling your grandpa momentarily. does the memory seem fuzzy or that you learned about it second-hand?

Pathosis 11-21-2012 12:00 AM

Lol. Yeah.

I'm open minded about some paranormal things, not so much religious.
I was spoon fed religion my whole life, so I'm kinda sick of it. xD

I was told that I said those things second-hand from my mom.
My grandpa was hit with some type of smoke bomb that some Spanish kids made, and it made him hallucinate.
He wandered for a day before he was found.
I apparently knew about this, and my mom was so confused because yeah...she didn't talk about her dad all that much.
He died before a few months before I was born, I didn't know him.

Toki 11-21-2012 12:35 AM

i know that feel u_u

you very well could have been channeling him then, just briefly

my great-grandfather died a little before i was born and my mom always said he was watching out for me but ive never seen any sign of it u_u

as long as you don't feel threatened or unsafe, you should be okay

Kamikaze Chinchilla 11-21-2012 01:35 AM

I'm not a stranger to premonition dreams. Most of them are things that I will see in the following day. My most notable one was the one time I had a dream about my grandmother's death and it had a date in it. The event happened a year later on the exact date that I was told in the dream (I told my mom about the dream several days after I had it, so she believed it and bought an outfit for the funeral). So now I'm paranoid about all my dreams with the dates.

Right now I have one that has...I believe was June 5 (year was 2011, but the year usually doesn't matter, just the month and the date). One of those disaster dreams. Even though there was a lot of chaos and damage, in the end everyone came out okay except for one casualty. I suspect is a failed attack on some place, or possibly referring to something else that damages buildings (like earthquakes).

=======================

I also have some extra sensory for things in a room. If there is a person in the room, I will feel the pressure and be able to detect the change in sounds in the room. Most of the time I don't get that (the energy without a visible body/source). Seems more common in houses...and I think I picked that up in one antique store.

My old house had the presence in it. My new house..it's more of the residual energy from my own family (like...things we've done...the house records it, I believe...cuz I don't feel the presence when those events happen). I've heard the tv downstairs when it wasn't on, I've heard the door lock and switches click when no one was around, etc. The only presence I feel in the house is right next to me in my computer area, but I think that is my own leftovers xD....it never moves or anything, just always in the same spot 24/7.

Anome 11-21-2012 01:45 AM

Gosh, compared to some of these stories, my own experiences seem so... boring.

I don't remember the year exactly, but it was when me and my family were still living in our old town. We had a few friends over, and it was late and we were hungry, so we started heading to the kitchen. But we stopped at the doorway of my room, and it was almost as if our attention was drawn to the mirror that my mom had next to the front door.

My sister said that she saw our, by then deceased, grandfather in it, but at the same time it wasn't really him. It was really frightening, and we all ended up retreating to my room to cower on my bed.

And then there was just our house ghost, who wasn't really aggressive apart from sometimes unlocking and subtly opening the door to me and my sister's room.

I vaguely recall an attempt at a seance before, in that same house. I only really remember some of the people who were there, and that our attempt had apparently brought some strong ghosts into the room, hanging out by our shoulders or something. I wish I could remember more.

All around, my experiences have been few. If they even count, I suppose.

Quiet Man Cometh 11-21-2012 02:04 AM

I don't really think much about paranormal stuff, though apparently it runs in my family, both sides. I think it's best to say rather, that I don't *not* believe in ghosts and such. I like to be open minded about such things, and my parents were never dismissive of the notion of ghosts and whatnot.

There are stories in my family about traditional 'ghost' activities like rocking chairs and books that fly across the room. My grandmother was apparently visited by the spirit of her old teacher when she, the teacher, passed. My dad didn't know what to think about that, but my grandfather remembers the knock at the door and asked who it was the next morning. The teacher lived in the next province over.

Ghost talk in my family has actually been quite casual, so I sort of look at it as another aspect of life. I get intuitive moments that I listen too, and see things out of the corner of my eye, hear funny things too. I recall my mother being angry when Ouija boards were brought out as games by a toy company.

I've never tried to have anything to do with paranormal activity but I'm always open to it as an interpretation. It's enough for me to think that odd happenings might be the result of a ghost or poltergeist in the house, as long as they don't bug me I don't really care.

As such, you wouldn't see me using a Ouija board or tarot cards, because some of that just seems like it could lead to things that I don't want to deal with. I prefer to leave the paranormal world well enough alone. I did visit an oracle when I was in Ireland though, and have since thought a lot about what she had to say.

Toki 11-21-2012 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anome (Post 1429726)
I vaguely recall an attempt at a seance before, in that same house. I only really remember some of the people who were there, and that our attempt had apparently brought some strong ghosts into the room, hanging out by our shoulders or something. I wish I could remember more.

i remember the entire night yo this was 50 shades of cray

we were at your old house and chi, adam, hanah, ashley, and i were all over and we decided to mess with an ouija board because we were FRICKIN DUMB and didnt know the consequences and ashley managed to contact something that she thought might have been her grandfather except much creepier so it prolly wasnt and then mercy went out to make ramen and saw your abuelo and noped out of the universe and then we all went with her and all got the same creepy feeling and noped back to the room and i cant remember if it was before or after that i had the whole shebang about whatever thing pressing on my back but you made it go away "/ and ashley had a problem with something influencing her emotions and making her irrationally angry and sad

how the hell do you not remember that yo

Dawn 11-21-2012 07:10 AM

I currently don't live there and my best friend could of gotten her information from anywhere, she is part Indian so..

other than that, I saw your conversion regarding Tarot cards.. never have experienced those through I honestly have interest in gaining a set and learning.. so my view regarding those is very slim..

Ouija board... only experienced using one of those once.. none of my friends really were what you call interested in the paranormal so none of them actually owned a board and my mother thought it was stupid, I tried a few times to purchase my own, even found one for sale at a local shop but she was like, it's a waste of money..
Either way, a friend of a friend's mother brought one to a sleepover we were having, for some reason, my neighbor's daughter was holding the sleepover in her garage and invited like four of us that lived in the neighborhood to sleepover.. so for a laugh, two of us took the board out and messed around with it. Pretty sure neither of us were doing it right but it was for laughs more than being serious.

But reading with what has been said about the boards, I have to agree.. it's something someone who doesn't know anything about shouldn't dapple in, even through they are suppose to be only for fun, I have heard too many stories about people using them and stuff has happened. Through, it doesn't change my opinion of wanting to have another go on one.

Tears 11-21-2012 07:32 AM

Hm... Sometimes I feel like I'm being watched or followed, when no one's doing that. I don't know if it's paranoia or some other reason. Maybe a combo. I don't really have any paranormal experiences except one...

my cousins and I were on the third floor of my grandparents' apartment. We were in a playroom, and we were just about to go. We had to turn off the lights because no one else was there to do it. soon, we had turned off all but one set of lights. As we searched for the switches, my cousin yelled out that she had found it. As we approached it, the light went off by itself, with an unusual click. We ran out and my cousin said she swore she could have seen the faint outline of a hand...

That and I have some sort of weak physic like ability. It's very random so it's probably nothing more than coincidences. Sometimes I'd touch something and predict some minor detail, and it'd be true, like one time I kept thinking to myself, my cousin will wear a red shirt, and she did. Also, I often have sudden ominous feelings, regardless of mood or weather. Dunno what to make of this.

Toki 11-21-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeste (Post 1430056)
Hm... Sometimes I feel like I'm being watched or followed, when no one's doing that. I don't know if it's paranoia or some other reason. Maybe a combo.

i have similar feelings-- ive decided to write it off as paranoia but if you genuinely feel unsafe, do not dismiss the feeling and get to a safe place as soon as you can. try carrying a protective crystal with you to ward off negative energy. most dark or black stones will help, but i would suggest a combination of amethyst to cleanse your aura, labradorite to protect, and rose quartz to promote positive energy. try making a bracelet or necklace out of a few of those stones and see if it helps you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeste (Post 1430056)
my cousins and I were on the third floor of my grandparents' apartment. We were in a playroom, and we were just about to go. We had to turn off the lights because no one else was there to do it. soon, we had turned off all but one set of lights. As we searched for the switches, my cousin yelled out that she had found it. As we approached it, the light went off by itself, with an unusual click. We ran out and my cousin said she swore she could have seen the faint outline of a hand...

that could be a helpful spirit. annie and i both have had experiences with spirits that like to open doors. if you feel threatened by its presence, try smudging sage or asking sternly but politely for it to leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeste (Post 1430056)
That and I have some sort of weak physic like ability. It's very random so it's probably nothing more than coincidences. Sometimes I'd touch something and predict some minor detail, and it'd be true, like one time I kept thinking to myself, my cousin will wear a red shirt, and she did. Also, I often have sudden ominous feelings, regardless of mood or weather. Dunno what to make of this.

once again i know this entire feel. you just get "that feeling" right? a lot of times it's with minor things, like which song will come on next on the radio, or what your friend is wearing that day. i believe it's a mix of strong intuition and maybe a small connection with your third eye. i wouldn't dismiss it at all, in fact, i'd try to embrace that ability and see if you can practice it

Toki 11-21-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn (Post 1430052)
other than that, I saw your conversion regarding Tarot cards.. never have experienced those through I honestly have interest in gaining a set and learning.. so my view regarding those is very slim..

tarot cards are p rad 10/10 would recommend
just don't get dependent on them-- they are to guide you in making your own decisions, not to tell you what to do or predict your future

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn (Post 1430052)
Either way, a friend of a friend's mother brought one to a sleepover we were having, for some reason, my neighbor's daughter was holding the sleepover in her garage and invited like four of us that lived in the neighborhood to sleepover.. so for a laugh, two of us took the board out and messed around with it. Pretty sure neither of us were doing it right but it was for laughs more than being serious.

NONNONONONONO
NO
DONT
USE THEM??????????? LIKE....... NO
they are defs not toys or things to be played with and i hate that toy companies are trying to market them as such
ouija boards are like posting a gigantic, flashing "YES WE'RE OPEN" sign on your house and even your mind if you're not careful, as my friend annie and i, and most other novices, found out the hard way
so if you ever feel anything negative following you, take the necessary precautions-- carry labradorite or some other black or dark red stone connected with your root chakra, perform a sage smudging ceremony where you sleep, avoid astral projection, etc.
if you don't feel any sort of negative energy around you then you probably are safe but do not hesitate to act if you feel threatened psychically in any way.

Quiet Man Cometh 11-21-2012 01:51 PM

We have an old wooden Ouija board that was my grandmother's. We don't have the eye anymore but apparently that isn't necessarily needed. An upturned glass or such seems to be usable as well if media is correct at all.

I've only heard stories of other people using Ouija. Both my sister's have, and though none were hurt (in one case the eye apparently flew up from the board and hit a friend in the head) one did get some information I'm not sure she wanted to know, or rather, confirmation of something she suspected.

The most ghostly things I've ever dealt with besides seeing things out of the corner of my eyes and such, was when I heard something like a small kid running down the hallway but only my sister in law and myself were upstairs and she was in a different room, and the time I casually stepped aside to let a dark blur pass in the same hallway that I thought was my brother's dog, but again he was in a different area.

We all came to suspect a cat ghost was in the house, since when we moved there we found a cat buried in a plastic bag behind the shed (it hadn't decomposed because of the plastic). A friend of ours who is apparently sensitive to the paranormal confirmed the cat and suggested that there was also a small boy.

We aren't in that house anymore. There doesn't seem to be anything odd about the one we're in now apart from the usual seeing things, but I find the trick with that is not to look right away. Give it a sec, then check to see if there was anything in the area that might resemble what you think you saw. Usually I find that's the case but not always.

Suzerain of Sheol 11-21-2012 03:21 PM

Obnoxious preface



That said, I have a couple questions for the more open-minded in here, since I'd like to better understand how the other side sees these issues.

1.) How do you account for the egocentric bias that seems inherent to these ideas? By that I mean, we as humans are pattern-seeking creatures, our brains identify external phenomena and then rationalize, post hoc, what we've perceived, which inevitably leads us to parse our experiences through our first-person consciousness. Everything ends up being about us.

To clarify what I mean with this question, the concept of divining or foretelling the future, as in a Tarot reading, makes for a good example. You have objects -- cards -- molecules bound together in a specific way, painted or otherwise decorated with, yes, patterns that evoke a certain response in the culturally-conditioned brain, but from where does the epistemic link between that internal system and the external (and yes, in my opinion, deterministic) reality arise? Why does the universe acknowledge that the specific synthetic patterns on these cards has a fundamental relationship of some sort to the chain of temporal causality? Even if there was some such relationship, surely it would require a more precise science than the constantly-fluctuating artistic culture that surrounds the Tarot medium and its production.

So, that is my first question. Onto the next.

2.) On the nature of "spirits". My first contention arises from the apparent necessity in this view of assuming the existence of... let's call it "incorporeal personality". So, I would first like to ask which aspects of the human experience demand an explanation beyond "the electro-chemical mechanics of the brain producing the simulation of sensation and selfhood" in order to be consistent with our observed reality. Or in other words, where in the framework of "Emotions are a snapshot of hormone levels in an instance, decisions are made with only the retrospective illusion of free will, and identity is a real-time reassembly of memories under constant self-modification" is a soul required? Which parts of human life fail to be accounted for under that system?

To tie this into "ghosts", now, I suppose it comes back to the idea of our egocentric cognitive biases. The question that wracks me in this regard is, why in the inconceivable vastness of the cosmos should there exist a "plane" or "dimension" that caters specifically to the presumed essence of "living creatures", when the population of life within the universe is so vanishingly rare? It seems to me to presume an importance on our part (as a species, and as a subset of all living organisms) that is corroborated nowhere else in our experience of existence.

Now, is it impossible? Certainly not. Intricate and fascinating as the brain is, it is a profoundly limited mechanism. We have five primary senses; surely, there exists a near infinity of perceptions to which we have no access (and should be glad of our blindness to, I might add). However, I find it exceedingly difficult to believe that any of those wavelengths, paradigms, what have you, would be in any way related to the human experience. I would expect them all to hold the same callous indifference to the existence of life that the rest of the observable universe displays.

To summarize, I do not discount that some of these sorts of phenomena occur (though, whether they're the product of the internal workings of the brain or have a basis in external reality is highly debatable), but I find the idea that any such occurrence should be A.) unable to be rationally analyzed and must summarily be dismissed as "outside the domain of science" or "supernatural" and B.) that there is any way the implication of intent, agency, awareness, or intelligence to these phenomena to be both symptomatic of the egomania of the subconscious at work, and as a rule, intellectually disappointing.

I would very much like to hear how these concerns come across to those who've had direct experiences of this nature, and who have presumably given more than to the matter than I have in my skepticism.

...I would say I didn't mean to write an essay, but that wouldn't be particularly honest. :P

Amoena 11-21-2012 03:25 PM

^^^everything so winning^^^

Ill straighten you out on the saner side of things, Suzie.

Quiet Man Cometh 11-21-2012 03:44 PM

Once again your vocabulary gives me some trouble. However! I shall endeavour to come up with something of an answer.

I shall start with repeating my statement that it is better to say that I don't not believe in such paranormal things, rather than I do believe in them.

I'm not sure what sort of specific answers I can think of except to start with my regular sort of philosophy. That being that, as humans, have a mighty high opinion of ourselves if we think that we can know and/or figure out all the goings on in the universe.

I can't really respond to the idea of there being a specific plane of existence for certain entities over others, because I wouldn't go so far as to assume that such a plane even exists. If it does, the who knows how many others there may be. We only look special on our little plane of existence if there *aren't* some ridiculous number of billions more.

As to the intelligence or awareness thing, I would never discount the idea because, again, *not* considering the possibility goes back to that high opinion thing. I guess I look at supernatural consciousness as similar to the way that I look at animal intelligence other than humans. Who are we to decide that other animals can't think or reason because we lack the ability to interpret what they do, apart from what we manage with our own reason and awareness.

I'm naturally skeptical of quantifying any sort of supernatural or paranormal experience. I'm open to interpretations but if someone wants to tell me that something is truth, than I'm going to be mighty leery about it.

Not sure that answered anything, really.

Chloe 11-21-2012 05:10 PM

My friend admitted to moving the pointer that night.. nothing really happened through the owner of the board didn't want it back after that night and last I heard, my neighbor still had the board.

I haven't messed with another one since through my Aunt owns one and me and my dad, who has had experience using them have talked about borrowing it from her but other than that, I wouldn't try it without someone who knows what they are doing.. and I heard you don't use the pointer unless the spirit wants to communicate with you.. not sure how accurate my father is with his information but he told me, me and my friend had been doing it wrong that night. XD

Toki 11-21-2012 05:10 PM

wow where were even the questions in that

um

well

ok

wow i like to consider myself intelligent but that went way over my head

but basically

i can't prove paranormal entities exist, but you can't prove they don't exist

that's basically it "/ i'm not gonna debate anyone of the existence of a higher/parallel plane since the paranormal is called that because we can't explain it. there isn't a specific "right" and "wrong" way to rationalize something that can't be explained in the first place. some people find comfort and reassurance in superstition, some find comfort and reassurance in science, some use a combination of both. none are wrong since all of their beliefs are essentially just theories.

also, let me play the devil's advocate for a moment: if you believe that humans use superstition to rationalize strange occurrences because they are pattern-seeking creatures, how do you know that some, more scientifically-educated people, aren't using science to rationalize something that could very well have been an otherworldly experience? they would be more familiar with the patterns of science, so those would be the patterns they turn to to rationalize their experience. we don't actually know either way.

like i said, i'm not going to debate anyone; you can believe what you believe and i'll believe what i believe, as long as we don't try to push our beliefs on one another i'm fine

Toki 11-21-2012 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amoena (Post 1430320)
Ill straighten you out on the saner side of things, Suzie.

im not sure what you mean by the "saner side of things" but if you're trying to call those of us who are more superstitious insane, i would appreciate it if you would leave because i will not have anyone insulting one another based on their beliefs

this is meant to be a non-discriminatory discussion

Amoena 11-21-2012 05:25 PM

@Toki - I'm not, nor was I - being discriminatory, however I don't think you understood what Suzerain was asking. He was asking your point of view to be clarified, so that he can understand it better because he is honestly wondering about that stuff. He was not debating you, but sparking a discussion, which you took to mean "debate" somehow.

I will leave this topic now, since you obviously do not want to have an actual discussion.

Toki 11-21-2012 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amoena (Post 1430546)
@Toki - I'm not, nor was I - being discriminatory, however I don't think you understood what Suzerain was asking. He was asking your point of view to be clarified, so that he can understand it better because he is honestly wondering about that stuff. He was not debating you, but sparking a discussion, which you took to mean "debate" somehow.

I will leave this topic now, since you obviously do not want to have an actual discussion.

you may leave if you wish but forgive me for misinterpreting

and i most certainly did misinterpret

like dang

calm down the PhD vocab please asdf that is really easy to take the wrong way

i'll state my opinion on the subject in a separate post

Toki 11-21-2012 06:24 PM

basically when it comes to paranormal things, i would like to believe they exist but i don't always since i have so rarely experienced any sort of thing that could be considered paranormal

like i said before i have practiced with astral projection and the metaphysical properties of crystals. neither i've had much success with but many other people i know have had significant experiences with one or both.

basically i do believe that the universe is connected through energy--which, as everyone knows, cannot be created or destroyed, only converted-- and that every living creature has some form of that energy keeping them functioning until their body expires and that energy is released into the universe to be recycled and/or converted into something else; therefore, i believe in reincarnation, not any form of heaven or hell

i dont remember who said it, but there's a quote i really enjoy that goes something like, "you do not have a soul; you are a soul, and you have a body." and i think that's pretty rad but even though i would like to believe it, i don't believe the energy that composes a soul can hold an identity for very long and i believe that identity is a thing created in the brain, not the soul, though it can have some influence based on what the soul was used for previously (past lives, etc.)

when it comes to ouija boards im basically like NO DONT P MUCH NEVER OK

tarot cards are p rad and ive owned three decks in my time

i really love exploring the metaphysical properties of crystals and i enjoy holistic healing because there are some things that people ignore and try to cure with chemicals when a gentler cure is right in their garden. (of course there are some things that cannot be healed or helped holistically but there are many things that can)

i'm especially fascinated by the topic of dreams because wow who knows where that comes from and why we dream what we do and why some people have dreams that may happen in waking hours later it's just really cool

but yeah lucid dreaming and astral projection i think would be really fun if i could do them "/

tl;dr i believe in and practice a lot of paranormal and holistic and new-age sorts of things even though i have pretty much no luck with them so yeah

Epic Rave Monster 11-25-2012 06:59 AM

do you believe in ghosts? why or why not?
I do. I've had experiences in the past.

tell us about a paranormal experience you've had
One day.. everyone was asleep. It was around 4AM. Nobody upstairs (this is an apartment) lived there, so it was just us. I had turned my television off and stepped out of my room. As I was heading to the kitchen, I heard a voice whisper in my ear. It kind of sounded like my sister.. but she moved to Texas years ago. It definitely wasn't my mom! I turned around and nobody was there. As much as I love spirits, I was shaking. It's creepy when it happens out of nowhere; Unexpectedly!

There was also a time when I came to my mothers' room to speak to her about something. She was alone in her room. Her computer was on, but no browser was up. Nothing. Not even Yahoo. But there was a male voice coming from her speakers, asking, "What's up?" I was shocked! My mom told me about how she was able to talk to the dead. Basically... the friend of her boyfriend had died in a car accident, and he's been sending her messages or whatever. It was hard to believe since I didn't see it for myself. So when he spoke to her.. it startled me.

Come to think of it.. the same thing happened to my sister. And it would make sense, since she was dating my moms' boyfriend at the time. -Sweat drop.-

Ah.. Years ago, I was sitting on my bed, and the radio turned on by itself. Nothing was pressed against it to make it do that.

Toki 11-25-2012 03:32 PM

sounds like youve had mainly technological experiences

ive never had experiences like that but it sounds pretty freaky! mostly in my house the doors open and close on their own but my parents always attribute it to airflow

do those things happen often, or just those few times?


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