Congrats Coda! And sadly now that my god team is in shambles (I evoed some) I can't do that kirin one anymore. ^^;

I have my Athena team up .. gotta level and evolve like.. half its members though o3o

Thanks coda for helping me build it! ^-^ and for helping me make my Ammy team better <3

The only change I made was swapping Archangel (you've got enough RCV!) for Arcline (whee 2.5x spike active!) -- that's not THAT big of a difference. ^^()

Still o3o all help is apreciated. dk sucks at building really good teams.

My Odin team is: BOdin, Shiva(R/B), Okuni(D/B), Muse(B/G), Archangel(L/B) and I normally pair them with Red Odin for extra god damage and poisons.. or sometimes another Blue Odin if it's a REALLY tough dungeon.

And that team is my best team, yet I can't get zeus with it D:< my ammy team dies before it reaches zeus, and Umi&Yama, i have to rely on the combos =w=

Try pairing your Amaterasu with my Christmas Archangel? 2x the HP and an additional ~40% auto-heal can make a lot of difference -- Awoken Amaterasu + Christmas Archangel is how I was able to clear Endless Corridors. And my Christmas Archangel has some nice latents thanks to the PreDRA Infestation dungeon.

I'm running that last dungeon that the one zeus is in now for gems. i wanna try 1 roll today. I hope he doesn't hit hard... then again if he does, GOdin should keep me alive @-@

took me 2 hours to do the one with Hera xD never seen an odin hit for like 5k per turn =w=,

CODA! 8D I HAVE VALK NOW!

Which Valk? The light one?

Yeah, the descend was the other day and she had just been lamenting not having light Valkyrie.

-has a big pile of gold dragons to feed her- need to evo her.. these foods take up space 3:<

300 DAY BONUS! woootz!

PreDra dungeon today -wonders off to find a team she can use- wonder if G-Sonia's team can do it o3o

Predra is easy, nothing in it hits particularly hard. Pair your healer team with my Archangel.

Too late now though.

I got the light Valk, I had to use three stones though. ^^;

She's totally worth three stones. She's almost worth five, especially since you don't have any risk of getting a crap pull instead. I forget how many stones I used to get her because it's been a couple years now. >.> She's one of my older monsters.

EDIT: She's the 30th monster I got that I still have, and the first high-end monster I ever got.

OuO -pets her baby predras-

I use my odin team.. =w=

I gotten L.Tama: IMP.HP and L.Tama: Wood DmG.Red. now to figure out who to put them on o3o

Baby Predra's are sooo cute x3 so sad to sell most of them. I'm keeping one for its cuteness! o3o

I tried to get Noah.. =o= failed..

OH! Eventually that MP shop will be moved to the shop section of the game. o3o that is if America does what Japan does.

Okay, so its not bad that I used that many. XD

YOSH! 3:< Zeus dungeon is up in the challenges.. Ammy Team in play .. DOES ANYONE HAVE GOEMON?! o3o that fire thief mon?

I had a team someone recommended with what I could use, I just need a goemon friend lead.. o3o (fully evo'd and stuff) unless i get zeus to drop with Ammy's team. ono Zeus is scaries.

Sorry, I don't. ^^;

Ammy seems to be doing good so far.

If she doesn't make it, I might change Angel out for Echidna on my Odin team. That time delay might help me out. she just wont get any boost

My friend keeps saying Echidna is weak, and I'm like ".-. What you talking about?" I don't know if she understands how to use her properly. ^^;

prolly not. its her Skill that makes her awesome.

Ammy's team failed. Dx near the end Zeus used a multi hitting skill. ;n;

-adds echidna to her Odin team- *n*

I need to skill up Echidna ._., need to find a good place to farm her.. she never drops in normal dungeons for me

Echidna IS weak. Her ATK is solid but it's not amazing enough to stand on its own, and she doesn't bring any useful awakenings to the table. And building a good Fire-element Healer team is difficult (though not as hard as it used to be). Her active skill is her ONLY redeeming feature on a Healer team. (If you go for an untyped Fire team, though, she's in the top four RCV stat sticks, only falling behind Samba Ruby Dragon, Gadius, and Valkyrie Femme. THAT'S a useful niche for her, but untyped teams can face spike damage and leader availability issues.)

Dk hates invades 3:<

edit:

3 invades in a ROW! Dx 3!!! If i use a skill on her, i screw my chance at zeus.. if I don't use a skill on her... i still get screwed out of zeus cause she kills me =o= i need green jewels anyway 3:< red invades go away!

ML, is that friend the one that started PAD recently? Tell her that Echidna's weak only when you get further into the game LOL

For those who are still in the early part of PAD, Echidna's skill is great--to the point where sometimes, you can just shove her in to a team that she has 0 synergy with, and you will get great results.

Too bad that doesn't really work after early game xD

@Coda I disagree; with the monsters that GH has been rolling out over the past year or so, mono-color teams have become very strong and often win out over type-based teams because type-based teams will have that additional restriction (typing) in addition to trying to stay monocolor or bicolor (rainbow type-based teams can't pack enough power with the multipliers on type-based leaders and monocolor leaders since your orb-changing options will be kinda limited and you can't take nearly as much advantage of row enhances, etc as you can with monocolor/bicolor/even tricolor teams, so rainbow type-based teams need the rainbow leaders' multipliers to hit hard). Both are great, though, and which one(s) you run depends on your box, of course.

The main problem with untyped teams is the lack of spike damage actives. Effects like "3xATK to Fire for 1 turn" just don't exist like they do for non-God non-Dragon types. And even God and Dragon can pull 2.5xATK. The highest color-based spike actives go is 2xATK and those are on subpar monsters; you can get 2xATK or even 2.5xATK for typed monsters on monsters that won't weigh your team down.

Sure, there are plenty of leaders that offer even as high as a flat 3xATK to untyped monocolor teams, sometimes even with 1.5x or 2x bonuses to other stats or other effects. The starter uvos fall into this category. But sadly flat 3xATK simply ISN'T COMPETITIVE anymore. The new norm for leaders is flat 3.5xATK or conditional 6xATK, or higher. (I barely use any of my other teams now that I've got a 4xATK leader. It really does make THAT MUCH of a difference.) Monocolor untyped teams simply have fewer choices than typed teams at that power level and they all have drawbacks that impact one's ability to properly sweep with them.

And this is intentional -- it's just like you said, untyped teams derive power from their larger pool of available subs. Typed teams derive power from having better leader skills and stronger spike actives. And unfortunately for untyped teams, typed subs are still easy enough to come by that typed teams are in general stronger.

There is ONE monster coming up that will be able to provide spike damage for untyped teams: Facet. Her active is a one-turn ATK bonus based on the number of TPA awakenings in your team (+0.3x for each TPA). That is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. Unfortunately, if you're building a TPA team, that cuts down your untyped leader selection even further -- at least half of the untyped color leaders have match-size-based multipliers that rule out TPA.

Except you also need to take the other stat boosts into consideration. Dark Izanami is awesome for a farmable mon and that 4x attack is great but she's effectively a 0.87/16/1.54 (+3k autoheal) leader (with two max-skill DIza leads; I looked back because I remember that you posted your DIza team, but I apparently keep skipping over it... can't find it) that can handle gravities nicely. A team of 6 monsters with 6000 raw HP each has an effective 31k HP...

3x attack plus other stat boosts are competitive; see Verdandi and the other two Norns, but especially Verdandi. Why are you referring to the starter dragons? For all that I enjoy watching people clear descendeds and other tough dungeons with starter dragon leads, you would need to have incredibly crappy luck with the REM or have made almost no REM pulls or have to face a very restrictive (technically or effectively) dungeon if your best team has a starter dragon leader...

Sweeping usually shouldn't be a problem; recent mono-color teams have been packing enough row enhances to make sweeping easy and they are also able to stall with higher HP, because tanky teams are making a comeback (although grindy teams aren't lol). Mono-color teams have competitive leads with 2x hp and 2.5x atk or 2.5x atk and 2.5x rcv, which can be paired to make 4/6.25/1 or 1/6.25/6.25 or 2/6.25/2.5 teams, with the latter easily reaching over 40k hp unless you're running a bunch of healer or attacker subs or something--and the low 6.25x attack is often made up with row enhances. Then there are teams like Sumire or Tsubaki or Awoken Tsukuyomi with the match-5-with-one-enhanced mechanic; they aren't type-bound and they can put out great damage (I feel like there's something wrong with this example, but I can't figure out what, so I'm gonna leave it here).

Type-based teams and mono-color teams tend to overlap a lot, which means a lot of mono-color teams can use type-based bursts (looking at you, dark row devils and fire attackers). Recent leads are also getting two-part leader skills that incorporate both type-based and mono-color boosts (Awoken Pandora, Awoken FA Luci, Blonia and Gronia uvos). I was going to type why I decided to say that, but I forgot what I wanted to say. But I didn't want to leave it out lol

Also:
"Effects like "3xATK to Fire for 1 turn" just don't exist"
But we have stuff like "2x attack to fire for 2 turns"--and on non-GFEs, to boot
While sometimes this isn't enough, this and the existence of the 2x hp (+ other things) leads mentioned earlier do mean that these actives can't really be directly compared

"at least half of the untyped color leaders have match-size-based multipliers that rule out TPA"
But the remaining half is still pretty big.

But Facet sucks (for now) because if you put her in a TPA team, it's probably not gonna be a team that gives Facet a boost so that she's not dead weight outside of her active. Light TPA teams are basically Athena, Light Valk, and Kanna--none of whom will boost Facet. Balanced TPA teams (the ones that exist, at least) are mostly green--notably Bastet (whose team ends up being half attacker usually) and Verdandi.
Maybe Light Izanami teams once she comes over to NA, but that's exactly one team--albeit a potentially really nice team with a farmable lead.
LD Izanagi teams would have the same problem as Athena, Light Valk, and Kanna teams--that the leader doesn't boost Facet's damage. On top of that, he has that >80% HP restriction.

I can feel that there's something very wrong with my post lol but after rereading this several times over I can't figure out what it is and I really don't feel like not posting it xD

DK wants Orochi ono

Your guys' wall of text scare dk o3o

nyahaha! 3 zeus, evo'd valk! 2 more zeus to go and I should be good o3o

edit: 4 zeus now. one more to go then i go after 2 tengu and another Goemon. *n*

*Notices your friends are too deep into the mechanics of PAD*

o.o....

-pets illu- o3o dk isn't smart enough to understand what they're talking about. do you understand?

>:3 Sparx might join us soon! muwahahahaha

I bring up the starter dragons because they're extremely easy to get and pack 3xATK and a RCV boost. This is your bare minimum. If your leader skill isn't at least as good as a starter dragon's, you suck.

The Norns are, if you will, the exception that proves the rule -- and they're 3.5xATK, not 3x. They're highly valued monsters SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they're among the VERY FEW leaders that bring untyped 3.5xATK. If there were more leaders that provided such, the Norns wouldn't be so prized.

Match-5-with-enhanced is a terrible mechanic. It disables both TPA AND rows (except in 5x4 dungeons), and the leader skills that provide it don't grant it enough of a damage bonus to make up for it -- compare Sumire (REM rare) at 4.5x with five orbs to Light Twin Star Divinegon (event reward) easily hitting over 4.8x with six orbs or Athena (farmable) at 6.75x with four.

Awoken Pandora and similar are NOT amazing untyped leaders. As a row enhance leader, she's effectively only 3x unless it's a mono-devil team, not 4x. You can't do three rows and still trigger the full power of her leader skill, and two rows requires 16 orbs instead of 12. So unless you're running a typed team anyway, she's PROBABLY better as a sub.

I was slightly wrong when I specified Facet individually; her entire series counts and I just hadn't looked at the others yet. Okame for example provides that buff based on wood and dark rows, making her a great sub under Verdandi with green Sonia as another sub.

-stares at Coda's wall of text- o3o Athena with Divinigon, thats the team build you made for dk ouo

In this discussion, those are two alternatives for the leader slot, not members of a single team. :P Divinegon actually kinda sucks as a leader but it was a point of illustration of a weak monster providing a stronger multiplier.

Ahh.. o3o i just found it interesting you listed those 2.

-tries to get her tengu team ready but realizes she evo'd one- =o= archie..

YES I GIVE MY MON'S NICKNAMES D8<

edit: 5th Zeus caught, tomorrow i go after Tengu *n* then after i get 2-3 of those I'll go after 1 or 2 more Goemon

LOL

So then we'd need to define what's as good as a starter dragon, because I'm getting a vibe from your posts that says 2.5x atk and 2.5x rcv isn't as good as 3x atk and 1.5x rcv (but then again, 2/4/2 teams were outshined by 1/9/1 teams back in 2014 and only recently are people starting to like 2/6.25/2.5 teams xD)

Haha oops I forgot that the Norns get higher attack at higher HP

Match-5-with-enhanced is fine, IMO, because of the current leads that use that mechanic (thinking of Tsubaki, Sumire, Awoken Tsukuyomi, Constellation 1 pantheon) as well as GH's apparent realization that they need to give OE awakenings in greater numbers so that OE teams can be competitive with TPA and row teams. Raw numbers in the leader skill alone really can't be used in comparisons, as I can tell you know. You're missing the OE boost for Sumire.

Assuming one blue OE per sub on a Sumire team, that's 8 blue OEs (Sumire has 2) on the entire team. 100% guaranteed +orbs, so calculations are simple. A match of 5 orbs gets 20.25x from double Sumire leads, 1 + (0.06 * 5) = 1.3x from the orbs being +orbs, and 1 + (0.5 * 8) = 1.4x from the presence of 8 OE awakenings on the team. Matching 5 blue orbs on a Sumire team therefore gives you 36.855x attack for that match.

5 OEs is standard for match-5-with-enhanced teams, similar to how 6-7 rows was standard for row teams; no one runs match-5-with-enhanced teams with fewer than 4 OEs unless they're desperate or something, just as no one runs row teams with fewer than 3? 4? 5? rows of their main color

Matching 4 orbs on an Athena team gives 20.25x attack to double TPA monsters and 13.5x attack to single TPA monsters. To get that 20.25x to match Sumire's 36.855x (which is with just 1 blue OE per sub) on an Athena team, you'd need a 1.82 to come from somewhere. With 9 light OEs, you get 1 + (0.06 * 4) and 1 + (0.05 * 9) for a light 4-match, which is only 1.798. Have fun trying to squeeze 9 light OEs into 4 subs lol Valk's easy, but beyond that...

Matching 4 orbs on a DIza team gives 36x to double TPA subs and 24x to single TPA subs without OEs. Including DIza's dark OE, the 36x becomes 36 * 1.24 * 1.1 = 49.104x and the 24x becomes 32.736x. 1/3 of a double DIza team carries 0 TPA, though, and will only get 21.824x. All of that is assuming all dark orbs are enhanced.

If there's a total of 6 dark OEs (average 1 per monster), then the initial 36x, 24x, and 16x instead become 36 * 1.24 * 1.3 = 58.032x, 38.688x, and 25.792x respectively.

Awoken Pandora, Awoken FA Luci, and Awoken Astaroth have all been shown to clear Arena (1.0 or 2.0, not sure) shortly after their releases. I didn't look carefully to see their latent setup or their subs, but... yeah...

Assuming 9 row enhances in a team (idk, 3 monsters with 1 row enhance and 3 monsters with 2 row enhances):

Matching 1 row of orbs means the multiplier is 1 + (0.1 * 9) = 1.9x

Matching 2 rows: 1 + 2 * (0.1 * 9) = 2.8x

Matching 3 rows: 1 + 3 * (0.1 * 9) = 3.7x

Double Divinegon gives 9x for 6 orbs from the leader skills. 1 row, 2 rows, 3 rows: 17.1x, 25.2x, 33.3x.

Heroes give the same but have higher multiplier options as well.
At 8 orbs it's 16x for double Hero leads (for all Heroes). 1 row: 30.4x. 2 rows: 44.8x.

3 rows of 9x or 2 rows of 16x? Time to add 25% base damage per extra orb per match lol

3 matches of 6 orbs = 3 * (1 + (0.25 * 3)) = 5.25x

2 matches of 8 orbs = 2 * (1 + (0.25 * 5)) = 4.50x

3 rows of 9x: 5.25x * 33.3x = 174.825x

2 rows of 16x: 4.5x * 44.8x = 201.6x

Better to make 2 rows of 16x than 3 rows of 9x (without taking attack stats and OEs into account AND without taking APandora's devil boost into account--btw, GH loves dark row devils)
Out of the row leads, I'm most familiar with the scaling of Hero leader skills (and, by extension, the Late Bloomer series's leader skills as well); not sure what other scalings there are

Unless otherwise noted, calculations were done without taking the extra base damage from matching more than 3 orbs (+25% base damage per orb) instead of 3 orbs into account

Match-5-with-enhanced also gets brownie points for being flexible in how you match those 5 orbs: cross, L, turned L, row, and column matches all work to activate the match-5-with-enhanced condition. I think this is true of all matches greater than 4, but in reality, 6+ matches are restricted.
Sumire gets brownie points for that awesome shield in her leader skill. Constellation 1 gods get brownie points for the resists.

I was gonna type more but I got caught up in the math (I like number-crunching) and wowee so much time has passed orz

Here's a PAD calculator if you're interested in seeing the damage of specific teams; I haven't seen anyone say anything bad about it
Did the math by hand using info from this thread as well as info from the last page of posts
And here's Sumire's page and the comment with the most net upvotes is a great Sumire guide; Sumire's a strong team lead not just for the stuff I covered in this post but also because of the synergy with two Sumire actives and her LS, etc.

Awoken Tsukuyomi requires a bit more skill, but a double AYomi team comes with minimum 6 dark OEs and 6 TEs

(There's also the ever-present SLR issue but that's a different beast, I think)

I was gonna start mathing with combo count and stuff because TPA teams don't mind combo shield while row teams do but ugh what am I doing with my time lol

-curious on what kind of team nick could build for DK- o3o

Week Day Dungeons are the theme. >:3 Mainly Thurs and Fri..

https://www.padherder.com/user/Demon...0,0,;default,0

Coda helped me with some teams. But I'm curious on Nicks Team

ILLU YOU JOIN IN TOO!

Without looking at whatever teams you already put into PADHerder and also with suggestions of Awoken forms of stuff that you currently have in a regular or super uvo:

You could probably make a Skuld team; I'm not familiar with teambuilding for Skuld, but by eyeballing you could have Umiyama, Apex Starling, max skill Kamui, Wiz Merlin (Beast Rider), Muse, Awoken Lakshmi as subs, maybe Blue Odin and suepr uvo Andro as stat sticks idk + Snow White max skill can be nice if you want bind clears

Similarly for Urd; maybe Awoken Shiva or RB Shiva, your current Tyrannos, Wiz Merlin as subs, chibi cao cao as a budget sub if you want his active, but I don't see a burst option so idk

Awoken Bastet/GZL/Gilliam? problem is his skill level; maybe Saiga Another? except same problem/Awoken Susanoo/Verdandi

Verdandi/Delgado/Awoken Susanoo/GZL/steal from Awoken Bastet

So many light rows but no light row lead in your box apart from the healer-specific Awoken Ama D:

Awoken Yomi/Okuni/Dark Izanami/Pandora max skill/Vamp max skill or Chaos Dragon Knight, Voice max skill

Awoken FA Luci/Awoken or super uvo Pandora (idk)/Gryps Rider, Vector Finn? problem is his skill level/idk/idk

Awoken Pandora, steal Awoken FA Luci's subs

Durga/Dark Izanami/Okuni/Awoken Yomi/Satsuki
the problem here is Durga

I dunno how well any of these would work lol

maxing skillz is one of the pains of PAD ono

whats GZL? ouo,

Green (Wood) Zhuge Liang, sorry xD

o3o Mr Sleepy has other colors?

That's the worst part! I understand everything completely.

Were in too deep.

I don't know how far my friend has gotten, but they have been leaning towards a water/healer team with that one water/light guy that's riding a dragon and then becomes that knight looking thing. I want to say his name has Quin or something in it? But my healer team was mixed if you remember and I got pretty far with it before having a ton of issues. Also, getting close to evolving some of my other monsters, and right now I have a big back log of dungeons I can do to get gems because of how well my water team has been doing. .-.